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A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

theguardian.com

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Re: A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

#11

Post by softg »

usrbinbash wrote: post #4

> Van Allen had budgeted £100 for the job, and come in under. I have a question to people in charge of politics everywhere: Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? If there are 100.000 homeless in a community, and 2 people manage to build that sort of shelter, with what they could get in tools and materials for 1,00…

>Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people?

A better question is, given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build actual housing for people? Surely a society that can produce semiconductors and fighter jets etc. is capable of assembling few thousand bricks/wood/whatever and build homes.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. If we had thousands of homeless shelters we might end up seeing people moving to shelters from actual houses that they can ill afford. Some could argue that evictions should be easier because worst case there would be shelters to go to. You will degrade housing for poor people instead of helping the destitute.

Re: A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

#12

Post by shyn3 »

usrbinbash wrote: post #4

> Van Allen had budgeted £100 for the job, and come in under. I have a question to people in charge of politics everywhere: Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? If there are 100.000 homeless in a community, and 2 people manage to build that sort of shelter, with what they could get in tools and materials for 1,00…

[flagged]

Re: A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

#13

Post by quickthrower2 »

usrbinbash wrote: post #4

> Van Allen had budgeted £100 for the job, and come in under. I have a question to people in charge of politics everywhere: Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? If there are 100.000 homeless in a community, and 2 people manage to build that sort of shelter, with what they could get in tools and materials for 1,00…

You are probably reinventing slums. However the UK used to be good at building well built council housing at scale. I think that is the solution. It has a great legacy as long lasting but perhaps ugly brutalist housing (Goldfinger was mentioned in the article funnily enough)

Re: A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

#14

Post by bell-cot »

usrbinbash wrote: post #4

> Van Allen had budgeted £100 for the job, and come in under. I have a question to people in charge of politics everywhere: Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? If there are 100.000 homeless in a community, and 2 people manage to build that sort of shelter, with what they could get in tools and materials for 1,00…

> I have a question to people in charge of politics...

IANAP (...Not A Politician) - but you seem unfamiliar with NIMBY's, gentrification, voter behavior, the perverse incentives created by both property-tax-funded government and real-estate-as-an-invesment, and the various problems which are generally associated (rightly and wrongly) with very poor residents.

Assuming that you live in a country both large and "advanced" enough to have a serious problem with homelessness, your country also has lots of advocates for housing the homeless - with thoughts and feelings similar to yours, but (sadly) much more experience with how those things play out locally, to fill you in on the all the details.

Those local-to-you advocates for housing the homeless are doubtless also eager for donors, volunteers, voters who'll support their efforts, or any other contribution which you might be able to make...

Re: A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

#15

Post by lazyasciiart »

usrbinbash wrote: post #4

> Van Allen had budgeted £100 for the job, and come in under. I have a question to people in charge of politics everywhere: Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? If there are 100.000 homeless in a community, and 2 people manage to build that sort of shelter, with what they could get in tools and materials for 1,00…

It’s even worse than that. In the US, at least, city governments are spending their money destroying the tents and tarpaulins that homeless people have set up for themselves on public land, and on fighting in court for the right to do so (see Martin v Boise and Johnson v Grants Pass). Then when someone uses their own land to allow tents or structures, the cities spend time passing unenforceable laws to ban it (see First Lutheran v St Paul). And they won’t even take money offered to them to do anything better! (See Burien city in WA currently: not only are they threatening fines on a church that shelters homeless people, they’re refusing to do anything with $1million offered by the county to help people in a local homeless camp. I am directly aware of a nonprofit group in Seattle that has over 100 preconstructed tiny houses and will install them anywhere for free, but is running out of storage space because no city in King County will allow them to do so, even on private land).

Re: A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

#16

Post by dave4420 »

dave4420 wrote: post #9
usrbinbash wrote: post #4

> Van Allen had budgeted £100 for the job, and come in under. I have a question to people in charge of politics everywhere: Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? If there are 100.000 homeless in a community, and 2 people manage to build that sort of shelter, with what they could get in tools and materials for 1,00…

1. Where are you going to build these? The neighbours will vote against you. Or you can build them in the middle of nowhere, meaning that they’re nowhere near any jobs. 2. This is appalling accommodation: no mains electricity, no heating, no running water, no sewerage. It is cheap, yes. People will assume that it’s part of a plan to _replace_ existing social housing, punish the working poor and generate tax cuts for…

The political economy seems not set up to tackle this problem. (There not being enough housing.)

We need to incentivise people to support actions that will reduce the monetary value of their home. Solve that and we’re golden.

Re: A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

#17

Post by mpreda »

usrbinbash wrote: post #4

> Van Allen had budgeted £100 for the job, and come in under. I have a question to people in charge of politics everywhere: Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? If there are 100.000 homeless in a community, and 2 people manage to build that sort of shelter, with what they could get in tools and materials for 1,00…

> but do it with professional builders, better tools and materials

Maybe a couple of professional builders could train and supervise the future owners, who'd do the building themselves (and learn new skills in the process). This would cut the cost down a lot more.

Re: A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

#18

Post by lazyasciiart »

softg wrote: post #11
usrbinbash wrote: post #4

> Van Allen had budgeted £100 for the job, and come in under. I have a question to people in charge of politics everywhere: Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? If there are 100.000 homeless in a community, and 2 people manage to build that sort of shelter, with what they could get in tools and materials for 1,00…

>Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? A better question is, given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build actual housing for people? Surely a society that can produce semiconductors and fighter jets etc. is capable of assembling few thousand bricks/wood/whatever and b…

> The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

That’s my take on your reasons for not allowing basic shelters, FWIW. We shouldn’t let “but it could have future negative effects!” be justification for having people dying of cancer sleep in doorways, or occasionally actually freeze to death on the literal street.

Re: A homeless man built a life underground Hampstead Heath (2020)

#20

Post by lazyasciiart »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #18
softg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build simple, but quality and stable shelter for people? A better question is, given how much money governments spend on nonsense, why can't we take some money, and build actual housing for people? Surely a society that can produce semiconductors and fighter jets etc. is capable of assembling few thousand bricks/wood/whatever and b…

> The road to hell is paved with good intentions. That’s my take on your reasons for not allowing basic shelters, FWIW. We shouldn’t let “but it could have future negative effects!” be justification for having people dying of cancer sleep in doorways, or occasionally actually freeze to death on the literal street.

Also: we don’t even need to spend money on building the housing. We need to spend money to undo the thicket of NIMBY laws that ban increased density in many forms; ban cheap single rooming houses or even the modern “apodment” equivalent because people found it disgustingly poor to live in tiny units; ban the existence of rehabs or homeless shelters or supported housing for the mentally ill in residential areas, or the existence of sex offenders in any housing, because nobody wants those people near them…
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