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Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

signal.org

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Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#921

Post by kalleboo »

JLCarveth wrote: post #903
kalleboo wrote: post #862

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither me nor GP said that it was started by Google. Just that it was adopted by them as a solution.

Adopted by Google yes, but since when would Google adopting a technology give them full control over the future of that technology? Surely the other industry members who started RCS also have a say? And I would argue that the language used implies Google created RCS themselves (it was their idea): "RCS is Google's idea of a solution"

> since when would Google adopting a technology give them full control over the future of that technology

It's the Microsoft 90's playbook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#922

Post by Obscurity4340 »

concordDance wrote: post #806
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So...is Wikipedia at the level where they can invest to ensure they're sustained indefinitely?

Wikipedia? Yes easily. Wikimedia? No, they're a money black hole and will eat whatever you give them.

You ever checked out Uncyclopedia? Nothing on that site is not like, hysterically funny and random. I'm glad Wikipedia has been such as inspiration to us all XD

Edit: check out https://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/Krispy_Kreme XD

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#923

Post by rodlette »

rodlette wrote: post #813
fsflover wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are very many clients lighter than Element.

I just checked https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/ I'll try FluffyChat, thanks!

I tried it. It looks nice, but audio/video calls didn't work at all between two FluffyChat clients.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#924

Post by darthrupert »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #683
JohnFen wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those are just non-profit fundraiser consulting tactics. Don't take them personally, just ignore them. I don't take them personally, of course, but they do encourage me to avoid forking over any money.

any excuse to not donate!

It's a good idea to be careful where to donate your money to. Most of us have limited resources, and while we should donate to worthy causes certainly, we have the responsibility of at least trying to put those resources to good use that reflect our own values.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#925

Post by erhaetherth »

eviks wrote: post #775
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can export to markdown apparently. Who's locked in? It might be a pain to import that into any other app but I don't think any messaging app is going to make that easy. You still have all your data if you want to bail

> pain That's how lock ins manifest themselves

Sure. But honestly, what are you hoping for, and does any app provide it? Honest question.

I'd prefer a JSON dump but something's better than nothing.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#926

Post by growse »

rglullis wrote: post #918
growse wrote: post #915

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I worry a lot more about not having one single actor responsible in dealing for the communication of millions of people than about "quantum-resistant encryption I'm glad you worry about this. Me and other people have other priorities. You're putting an awful lot of effort into projecting your values onto other people, which is a bit weird.

> Me and other people have other priorities. Did you watch "The Big Short"? You are sounding like one of those jocks-turned-real-estate agents that are bragging about how easy it is to make money and thinking the analysts were idiots. > You're putting an awful lot of effort into projecting your values onto other people. We live in a world where people are bullied for not using iPhones and showing up with different bu…

> Did you watch "The Big Short"? You are sounding like one of those jocks-turned-real-estate agents that are bragging about how easy it is to make money and thinking the analysts were idiots.

I've literally no idea what this means. Who thinks who's an idiot in this analogy?

> All I am saying is "please let's not collectively put ourselves in the hands of any single entity". Are you sure I'm the one projecting values, here?

I don't care what messaging platform you use. You appear to deeply care what other people use, and therefore what should be important to them. Yes, I'm pretty sure.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#927

Post by growse »

rglullis wrote: post #917
growse wrote: post #914

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because centralisation provides ecosystem agility , which they absolutely value as an upside. Find a way of doing post-quantum secure key exchange? Just roll it out to the server and all the clients essentially overnight. They've talked about this, a lot.

I'm well aware of their justifications. I'm also aware that centralization brings systemic risks , which they don't talk about. The internet would be a lot more efficient and able to evolve if we just had it controlled by one single entity like Google or Microsoft. Do you think is a good idea to do that? The economy would be a lot more efficient and allocation of resources could be a lot more fair if we could put it…

Signal is so far from being a monopoly that runs "all the world's communications" that these comparisons are essentially meaningless.

There's plenty of diversity in the messaging space. Decide your values, choose your compromises, pick your platform. Simple.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#928

Post by lebed2045 »

xtracto wrote: post #859
waffleiron wrote: post #802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are they? These salaries are much lower than most tech competitors. That really depends on the location these people are working from. In most of the world, those are insanely high salaries. A company like this doesn't need to be based in SV.

I tended to agree with your sentiment. But the reality is that for some unknown reason to me, it's companies from SV the ones that get famous and used globally. Why didn't this start from say Mexico? Or Singapore or Vietnam? Or at least Germany which has a good record of freedom conscious tech scene . My bet is in something related to the "maslow pyramid": people in SV have so much money that have everything solved i…

Many messengers companies started outside of SV,

• Telegram - Founded: Russia, Headquartered: Dubai, Users: 500M+

• WeChat - Founded: China, Headquartered: Shenzhen, Users: 1.2B+

• LINE - Founded: Japan, Headquartered: Tokyo, Users: 84M (Japan)

• Viber - Founded: Israel, Headquartered: Luxembourg, Users: 1B+

• KakaoTalk - Founded: South Korea, Headquartered: Jeju City, Users: 52M+

• Zalo - Founded: Vietnam, Headquartered: Ho Chi Minh City, Users: 100M+

• ICQ - Founded: Israel, Headquartered: Cyprus, used to have big market share

• Skype - Founded: Estonia, Headquartered: Luxembourg/USA, Users: 40M daily

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#929

Post by OkGoDoIt »

_ugfj wrote: post #811
darthrupert wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll ask the question you're implying out loud. Why does an organization with about 50 employees need 4 C-level executives, totalling about 2M compensation per year? Or perhaps it's 7 C-level executives (3 hiding under the "Software developer" title) totalling about 3,7M compensation per year? I'm absolutely not donating money to such a thing without an answer to this question. As a counterpoint, I am a member of a l…

I find this hypocritical. C executives of tech orgs with world class products often have eight figures compensation -- if not from salary then from stock options. I do not see any excess here. You need to pay to compete.

Indeed, I’m blown away these numbers are so low. I know multiple senior software engineers at FAANG companies who make more than the software engineers on that list, and they contribute roughly nothing to society. I have zero qualms with Signal executives and employees being paid at that level.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#930

Post by chx »

lannisterstark wrote: post #884
_ugfj wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to me this smells transphobic but it's possible the trans genocide several US states are working on made me oversensitive

How is it transphobic to say organizations focused on LGBTQ shifted their alignment for the one part that isn't widely accepted in developed because others for the most part are?

The reply to my suspicion was so transphobic it got removed. I can smell these people from a mile away. Fragments of it survive in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38301956
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