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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#631

Post by tmnvix »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #320
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

throwing money at the NYC subway seems to have a generally great track record (albeit one featuring less efficiency than throwing money at other global subway systems). NYC could not function without it.

The 7 line extension cost over $3 billion dollars in 2023 terms to build 1.5 miles of track from Times Sq to Hudson Yards and build one new station there. I defy anyone to conclude this represented good value.

It was probably good value for anyone that owned any surrounding property.

Ideally the increase in property value should be captured by the public who made the investment - self funding effectively. But that's just the old LVT argument.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#632

Post by davidw »

stavros wrote: post #582
davidw wrote: post #21

I do almost all the grocery shopping for our family of 4 with a Rad Runner Plus with a large basket and bag. I love that bike. Even as someone pretty comfortable getting around on a 'regular' bike, having that extra power just makes it a really easy choice for more trips compared to the car. If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. If it's cold ou…

> If it's cold out, I can really layer up and not worry about sweating because I overdressed I envy people with good heat regulation. I love my cycle, but if I start cycling in freezing weather, I can either dress up for the start of the right, or the rest of it. If I wear a warm jacket, I have to take it off five minutes later and be riding in a t-shirt in freezing weather, otherwise I'll get extremely sweaty. If I…

That's my point though is with the eBike, I can dress warm for the start of the ride, and then crank up the pedal assist when I start warming up too much.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#633

Post by hnlmorg »

andrepd wrote: post #554
hnlmorg wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that can be solved by law too. I know a lot of Americans would see this as an infringement of their freedoms but it’s quite common in other countries to place the order of responsibility to the most vulnerable to least vulnerable. What I mean by this is that cyclists need to give way to pedestrians, and cars need to give way to cyclists and pedestrians. I’ve never quite understood the logic behind jaywalking…

It's useless to build a straight road, 4 wide lanes, then stick a sign on the side going "pls no speederino". The roads and the streets themselves need to be designed so that they do not allow unsafe use. Meaning any road/street shared by pedestrians needs to have narrow lanes, few lanes, sidewalks separated by e.g. a row of trees, speed bumps and raised crosswalks, bollards separating lanes, chicanes, etc.

That's already the norm in the UK. To be honest I'd forgotten many residential roads in the US were dual cartridge ways. That does make things more tricky.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#634

Post by KleerKut »

at_a_remove wrote: post #446
willio58 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life. If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking…

And for those handi-capable folks, what do we do?

[dead]

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#635

Post by kazinator »

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

You have to solve housing. Nobody wants to commute 50 miles by electric scooter.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#636

Post by kazinator »

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

You have to solve housing and/or transportation.

Nobody wants to commute 50 miles by electric scooter; if that's their only viable option other than a car, car it will be.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#637

Post by Enginerrrd »

hedora wrote: post #630
camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

I think you need to check your math. There are 14 times more of these electric mopeds, etc than cars, but they only have 4x more impact than the EVs. So one EV displaces about 3.5x more carbon emissions than the mopeds. To make the 2030 halve our emissions deadline, and 2050 net zero deadline with just little city vehicles, we’ll need to abandon the suburbs, exurbs and rural buildings and infrastructure that we alrea…

Also I'd just like to add: everyone forgets that not everyone lives near an urban center. It'd be fine to get rid of 90-95% of the internal combustion cars/trucks and then move on to the next biggest target. We don't need to jump to 100% on everything.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#638

Post by InSteady »

bluejekyll wrote: post #337
camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

> The only way that's even remotely possible is to heavily subsidize EVs (probably honestly just providing free swaps) I think that is in contradiction to your initial statement, > building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe… Subsidizing car ownership will only make these goals harde…

>Air Quality

Adding to this, it also appears that even low levels of PM 2.5 air pollution has negative impacts on health over a long timeframe (including increased risk of cardiovascular disease, dementia, death, and more).

WHO is now recommending average annual exposure targets should be set 2-3 times lower than current EPA levels and a whopping 5 times lower than EU standards. Serious health complications occur above this level. [1]

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10097564/

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#639

Post by davidrhunt »

jwr wrote: post #431

I ride my E-bike every day, to office and back, and to run various errands (in a European city with some, but not enough biking infrastructure). After several months of doing this, sitting in the car trapped in traffic feels almost painful. The bike gives me real freedom: I can stop pretty much anytime I want, I can park close to any destination without searching for a parking spot. Compared to this, being stuck in t…

Your point #1 was the case for our family as well. E-bikes allowed us to go from two cars to one car which has been amazing. So many of these conversations get caught up in ban bikes vs. ban cars and it is exhausting.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#640

Post by davidrhunt »

kibwen wrote: post #19

Would anyone here like to recommend (or disrecommend) any e-bike models?

In my experience bikes with Bosch/Bafang motors/batteries will be more reliable and easier to find service for. There are many brands/options/price points with that constraint.
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