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Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

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Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#341

Post by averageRoyalty »

Someone1234 wrote: post #271
mmcnl wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: you can usually run 10Gbit/s over CAT5e if the cables are not too long, so you probably won't need to replace your cables. But the hardware is indeed expensive.

That isn't a correction, that is pedantry. Nobody is going to spend $100/month and thousands on equipment and then run their 10 Gbit/s network on 5e. The lengths to remain stable won't even bridge floors of a home let alone from end-to-end. If it was free in terms of equipment, you might have a point. Since then 10 GB is just a "bonus" but it isn't, or even close. So you'd be cheaping out on the final 10% of the cost…

> The lengths to remain stable won't even bridge floors of a home let alone from end-to-end.

This isn't true. I've run 10gbit over cat5e many times in 10-30m lengths. That might not be enough for end to end on your house (although it is for many peoples), but it's certainly fine between floors.

10gbit switches are becoming significantly more common. Vendors like fs.com and even Netgear offer some reasonably priced options. Mikrotik and other vendors offer better (pricier) options, but assumedly if you want 10gbit (or even 1gbit) you're an enthusiast or business anyway.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#342

Post by ethbr1 »

Baeocystin wrote: post #322
ethbr1 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding a competent electrician these days, for a residential job, can be the difficult part.

I work with several low-voltage guys on different jobs, both new development and retrofit. It is exceedingly difficult to find good cable guys. Running parallel to romex, staples through the middle of the cable, minimum radius as a non-existent concept... Like you say, the competency is the hard part to find. And before anyone adds on with 'lol pay more', they try. The people just aren't there.

Almost all homeowners can't pay more than commercial jobs (for the same amount of billable work).

Ergo, if they can, tradespeople take commercial jobs.

Which leaves residential tradesperson as something of a lemon market. (And I wouldn't want to put up with one-off job, haggling about payment, if I had commercial options)

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#343

Post by saalweachter »

noir_lord wrote: post #173
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I spent a good amount of time in our house the first fall setting up PoE cameras, which involved much time crawling around the attic. Hell of a workout and can be unpleasant but extremely doable.

Mask, Gloves and a Long Sleeved shirt and it's all good. Some of the old insulation will make you itchy as hell and probably not something you want to breathe but otherwise yeah, it's just a chore its not difficult assuming you are able bodied (I'm UK so our houses (until recently) had heavy duty joists so you can just clamber around on them, if gonna me up a while take a board up and lay it over a few to kneel/lay o…

I've always wondered if that's the old glass insulation itself, or the accumulated mouse-poop-dust embedding itself in the microscratches and freaking out your immune system.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#344

Post by ethbr1 »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #206
ethbr1 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It's not rocket science. Unless you're mobility limited, everything in an attic should be accessible. The main considerations are: - Do work when it's cold outside. Do not be up there when it's warm and sunny - Wear a breathing mask. N95 / painter's mask works fine. Glass insulation particles aren't lethal, but also aren't stuff you want in lungs - Think twice. Then move. Slowly. And feel you're standing on s…

I actually brought up an old LED rope that I wasn't doing anything with and just left it there unplugged for future needs. Probably will be dead by the time I need to work up there again, haha.

That's a damn good idea.

I wired a string of LED lights for a friend (with outlets), but I figured the electronics in them would eventually fry.

I wouldn't be surprised if attics in the southeast get up to 140F in the summer.

Rope lighting would be cheap and semi-insulated.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#345

Post by saalweachter »

tzs wrote: post #80
jmathai wrote: post #33

This is a comment for folks in homes with coax run for cable TV. Ethernet is great. I wired ethernet to most rooms in our remodel and set up wired access points or jacks in the office to connect directly to my computer. The speeds and consistency over wifi and mesh were remarkable. Especially consistency. We moved, and it's not feasible to run ethernet everywhere in our current home. However, whoever built the home r…

> We moved, and it's not feasible to run ethernet everywhere in our current home. However, whoever built the home ran coax to nearly every room in the house - it's a bit ridiculous How old is the house? If its more than 20ish years old running coax everywhere was a great choice. That would be before CAT5e cable so if they had went with ethernet cable instead of coax you'd be looking at 100 Mb/s. If it was built befor…

If you're ever in the situation where you have your walls open and you want to install data cables, do yourself a favor and go nuts with some Smurf tubes. (ENT boxes and tubes.)

Run them all over the damn places, anywhere you might want Ethernet or coax or HDMI or whatever is big ten years from now. You don't even need to pull the Ethernet now; just put blank covers on the boxes you don't need.

Once you have the tubes in all your walls, future cable pulls become a snap; you don't even need fish tape half the time, you can just push Ethernet in one side and have it pop out the other.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#346

Post by ihattendorf »

longtimelistnr wrote: post #144
mrlonglong wrote: post #21

Intel needs to stop gouging customers for 10GBe NIC cards because they've got all the patents on the technology. Greed is _so_ ugly.

what is the primary use you would have for them? do you have a 10GB connection? if so, very lucky

Ethernet != Internet.

I have a few SFP+ 10 GbE connections internally that are useful for large file transfers.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#347

Post by thwarted »

tzs wrote: post #169
bombcar wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can hire someone to run the cable for you, it's not a terribly hard job. The most expensive part is getting out there. So keep an eye out for a neighbor who has an electrician doing work and maybe see how much to just move the cable. Drones is overthinking it.

> So keep an eye out for a neighbor who has an electrician doing work and maybe see how much to just move the cable That reminds of an idea I had for an app and/or website. I'm never going to get the time to actually try to make this, so if anyone wants to feel free. I've had small tasks I wanted done that would only take someone with the right skills and equipment a few minutes that I didn't want to DIY either becau…

(ignoring all the other comments in this thread who are legitimately calling out these are professional services you want and your suggested price is insulting)

What ever happened to taskrabbit anyway?

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#348

Post by [deleted] »

tzs wrote: post #80
jmathai wrote: post #33

This is a comment for folks in homes with coax run for cable TV. Ethernet is great. I wired ethernet to most rooms in our remodel and set up wired access points or jacks in the office to connect directly to my computer. The speeds and consistency over wifi and mesh were remarkable. Especially consistency. We moved, and it's not feasible to run ethernet everywhere in our current home. However, whoever built the home r…

> We moved, and it's not feasible to run ethernet everywhere in our current home. However, whoever built the home ran coax to nearly every room in the house - it's a bit ridiculous How old is the house? If its more than 20ish years old running coax everywhere was a great choice. That would be before CAT5e cable so if they had went with ethernet cable instead of coax you'd be looking at 100 Mb/s. If it was built befor…

[deleted]

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#349

Post by WalterBright »

signatureMove wrote: post #235
tzs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We moved, and it's not feasible to run ethernet everywhere in our current home. However, whoever built the home ran coax to nearly every room in the house - it's a bit ridiculous How old is the house? If its more than 20ish years old running coax everywhere was a great choice. That would be before CAT5e cable so if they had went with ethernet cable instead of coax you'd be looking at 100 Mb/s. If it was built befor…

IMO sounds crazy. Can't you just step on the wooden frame instead of the space between them?

Lots of people just lay some planks down over the joists.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#350

Post by ihattendorf »

ForkMeOnTinder wrote: post #245
ihattendorf wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the backwards compatibility story here? Send out dual 1500/9000 packets? I don't see how that would work for the billions of devices in the wild without replacing everything but maybe there's a better solution that doesn't take 30 years.

IPv6 also required hardware in the wild to be replaced, but that's not a reason to give up and let things ossify. Over the next 30 years most hardware will be landfilled and replaced anyway. Let's get these improvements into the software stack of new devices now, and then let nature take its course.

> IPv6 also required hardware in the wild to be replaced

I understand that, but it was (is) able to do that in a mostly backwards compatible manner.

My question is: how is that possible with different MTU sizes? Have ISPs support 9000 byte frames and fragment to 1500 bytes for compatibility with the wider internet? Then something like PMTUD can be used to bypass this fragmentation when supported?

To be clear, I would love to have larger MTU sizes. I just don't see a straightforward way to transition everything over. I'm not a network engineer though, maybe there just isn't enough a strong enough impetus for anyone to dedicate the resources to this.

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