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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#581

Post by hot_gril »

ryukafalz wrote: post #568
FredPret wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These problems are inherent in buses. Buses will always be open to the entire public. If "the public" includes raving lunatics, then they will find their way onto the buses. To build a better network, you need to either throw a vast amount of money at it, or have a super-dense city. The public transit in London & NYC is merely OK. In other cities, it will always be prohibitively expensive. And to say that "the bus sh…

> And to say that "the bus should always come" is not exactly an argument in favour of transit. We all know the damn bus should come. But sometimes, it just doesn't. A big reason that the bus doesn't come is that it's gotten stuck in traffic. As in, behind cars. Give the buses their own space so they don't get stuck behind cars and they can be a whole lot more reliable. Of course, since we've handed over essentially…

SF has bus-only lanes everywhere. The bus is still very slow, even if you don't have to wait, because of all the extra stops. I'm looking at visiting parts of western Europe where supposedly public transit is good, but actually it's far slower than driving. The only way driving ever ends up being less convenient is if there's constrained parking. It's just very hard to beat a car that can go directly from point A to B.

What also beats mass transit is walking, if a city is laid out such that you don't usually need to walk very far.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#582

Post by stavros »

davidw wrote: post #21

I do almost all the grocery shopping for our family of 4 with a Rad Runner Plus with a large basket and bag. I love that bike. Even as someone pretty comfortable getting around on a 'regular' bike, having that extra power just makes it a really easy choice for more trips compared to the car. If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. If it's cold ou…

> If it's cold out, I can really layer up and not worry about sweating because I overdressed

I envy people with good heat regulation. I love my cycle, but if I start cycling in freezing weather, I can either dress up for the start of the right, or the rest of it. If I wear a warm jacket, I have to take it off five minutes later and be riding in a t-shirt in freezing weather, otherwise I'll get extremely sweaty. If I go out in a t-shirt, I'll shiver for the first five minutes.

The summer is hell, I can't go anywhere without being drenched in sweat.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#583

Post by Muromec »

ponector wrote: post #362
Muromec wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't commute in bad weather and in unsafe conditions. Working from home and improving road infrastructure is totally an option.

Work from home is an option only for some office folks. Would you be happy if your baker, barber, car mechanic will not commute to the workplace if it is raining?

This kind of argument goes both ways. See —- having a car is also an option only for a minority of people, so please stop having it.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#584

Post by Muromec »

admax88qqq wrote: post #579
willio58 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life. If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking…

How do we address the people who live in areas where the grocery store is not within walking/biking distance. Living car free in a city built for it can be bliss. But tons of people do not live in cities built for it. Do we rebuild those cities? Force them to move?

I’m not a architect, but I suspect building a bakery in a place people want to buy bread is more energy-efficient compared to driving 5 miles (uphill both ways) for every bread-enjoyer in a personal cars.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#585

Post by topaz0 »

anon291 wrote: post #398
houseatrielah wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the root cause is further up the chain of casuality. People need cars because they live in the suburbs, they live in the suburbs because they have children, they want to raise children in more square footage than the urban housing stock offers. Notable exception being Tokyo Ironically, if you look NYC in the 1910s, kids used to play baseball in the street because it wasn't yet overrun by cars, suddenly not en…

People want suburbia because crime is often lower. Why won't we accept this reality. I don't understand why so called progressives don't just face this issue head on. Increasing incarceration rates makes cities safer. It's true that some small number of people will be jailed. It's also true that more people would move to cities. And before someone throws out some nonsense politics. I live in the inner city (less than…

Incarceration rates in this country are sky-high compared to others with lower crime. Crime rates were decreasing well before incarceration boomed, too. The evidence is incredibly clear that incarceration is not an effective anti-crime measure, to anyone willing to look.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#586

Post by hot_gril »

estebank wrote: post #349
cbozeman wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transit does not work in a place like Montana or Wyoming. Sorry. Too large, too sparsely populated. Same reason it won't work for most of Texas either. It's fine in Dallas or Austin, parts of Fort Worth... it doesn't scale to Lubbock or New Braunfels. A lot of people have no interest in living in your concrete jungle... myself included.

> urban areas, defined as densely developed residential, commercial, and other nonresidential areas, now account for 80.0% of the U.S. population > (as of 2018) 31% of the U.S. population lives in urban core counties Improving public transportation in cities, makes those cities better for those who live and/or work in them. In downtown SF I counted the number of people in cars backed up in a single city block. The tr…

I'm pretty convinced that if they expanded or reduced the roads in SF or other dense cities, the traffic would be the same. The traffic reaches an equilibrium with the alternatives. I used to ride BART from Berkeley to SF every day, and it was consistently slower than the driving route despite being a straight shot.

About the externalities, you already pay a lot to cross the more popular bridges into SF by car, you probably pay for parking, gasoline is taxed heavily, and the police don't really protect your car from break-ins. Yet some people want to drive for one reason or another.

Disclaimer: Everything above based on pre-2020 SF cause I left for good.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#587

Post by ubermonkey »

davidw wrote: post #239
ubermonkey wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. I feel like this indicates you do not live in a very hot & humid place. That sounds wonderful, to be sure, but in Houston summer a 1.5 mile trip to the grocery store on any kind of ebike would definitely require a change of clothes & a shower once done.

I feel this indicates you do not understand how an eBike functions. You can get on one and simply turn the throttle or set the pedal assist to the max, and poof instant breeze with no effort. It is cooler than just standing there. I lived in northern Italy for a while so I get 'hot and humid' although I'm sure it's another level in Houston.

I absolutely do. You, otoh, have never been to Houston in the summer, apparently.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#588

Post by willio58 »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #543
at_a_remove wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for those handi-capable folks, what do we do?

And what happens when it is freezing or storming outside? Not everyone lives in LA. If you need proof that HN is a bubble, look no further than this thread.

Is your point that all handicapped people need cars to get around in bad weather? I understand not everyone lives somewhere with good weather, but I'll point you to look at cities that get a ton of weather and still manage to have good transportation like Montreal, Toronto, Chicago, Tokyo, etc. and many handicapped people make great use of the transportation in those cities.

Physical and mental ability exists in a spectrum for all of us. A small portion of people may physically need to be driven around in a vehicle. But a huge portion of those with disabilities are still fully able to get onto a lightrail, metro, etc. to get around.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#589

Post by lotsoweiners »

mdgrech23 wrote: post #437
kikokikokiko wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Notable exception being Tokyo" The fact that the japanese in general have no children at all makes this notable exception not be one at all. Humans are not meant to live on top of one another. To me the correlation between fertility and urbanization is a clear sign that living on the burbs is a plus for quality of life and the perpetuation of the human race. Cars are just a necessary tool for being a human in 2023.

Living in sky scrapers sucks and is not enjoyable. Same with living in suburbia. The sweet spot is densely packed urban areas that are built on the human scale.

Different strokes for different folks. I enjoy living in suburbia very much and densely packed urban areas give me nightmares.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#590

Post by Mawr »

at_a_remove wrote: post #446
willio58 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life. If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking…

And for those handi-capable folks, what do we do?

Well what do you do when your only option is a car but you can't drive?

Cycling infra helps: https://youtu.be/xSGx3HSjKDo?t=42

So does public transport: https://youtu.be/hK5r4dtFXGA?t=326, https://youtu.be/PgFVjCL21WI?t=178

Quote from a stranger: "I am a disabled individual. I literally cannot operate a motor vehicle in a legal capacity. I cannot live in most US cities because of the lack of public transport and inability to walk places. I WANT THIS TO CHANGE. I am visually impaired, but I want this to change not only for me, but others like me whose disability would not hinder their life nearly as much if the cities they lived in were walkable cities. This would also benefit the mental and physical health of future generations, granting younger people the opportunity to see more of their home town in a safer environment."

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