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Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

breakingdefense.com

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Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#171

Post by randmeerkat »

ska wrote: post #117
randmeerkat wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but not for contractors. Sure, but it’s not like the consulting firms are paying their “contractors” more, they just siphon up the difference for their shareholders.

That's not really how it works. They are more than happy to have "market forces" drive up the hourly rates, so long as they get to keep their overhead % fixed, and that's probably how the contract is structured. Win-win (and perhaps -lose for taxpayers).

> That's not really how it works. They are more than happy to have "market forces" drive up the hourly rates

That’s exactly how it works, look at contract government salaries compared to anything in the private sector. They charge the government more as rates “go up”, but that certainly isn’t passed along. If large contracting companies really offered value to the government _and_ kept up with market rates for their employees, the state of federal software wouldn’t be what it is today.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#172

Post by wedn3sday »

btbuildem wrote: post #123

Pardon me if this is too simplistic, but wouldn't cutting back the budget begin to instil some fiscal responsibility into an organization? Conducting an audit seems like just another expenditure in a climate of obscene overabundance of resources that encourages spending more and more.

Any loss in revenue would immediately be blasted through the media as the destruction of jobs. Dont think of the pentagon as a fighting force, think of it as a make work (and thus make votes) organization.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#173

Post by scatters »

HideousKojima wrote: post #13
Mistletoe wrote: post #3

Can anyone explain to me why it is awful for a person to live in debt but it is okay for the federal government to do so? I've never understood this in the least, other than the "kick the can down the road, America superpower backed by military blah, blah, blah" very weak argument. History is full of the carnage of failed empires that had this same idea. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN 32 trillion in debt…

Most explanations I've seen boil down to to "The US (or any other sovereign nation with control over their own currency) can print their way out of debt, it's literally impossible for the US to default." This ignores the devastating economic effects that printing such a huge amount of currency would cause (likely comparable to the effects of simply defaulting) and ignores the fact that sovereign nations with control…

The Russian rouble was not free floating prior to the crisis. They tried to defy the iron triangle and paid for it. This is not a problem for the USA, since other currencies are denominated in terms of the dollar.

The reason it would be impossible for the US to default is that the US is not significantly in debt. Most of the federal debt is held domestically, meaning by the US. You can't be in debt to yourself.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#174

Post by scatters »

HideousKojima wrote: post #22
nxm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt is also how economies and a lot of companies grow

They could also grow by saving and reinvesting surpluses/profits

No, they couldn't. One person's savings is another person's debt. If everyone tries to save then no one can; this is the paradox of thrift.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#175

Post by 1323portloo »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #168
ramilefu wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on where you live. An “experienced engineer” is going to make a lot less if they live in Mississippi than if they were in California. 250k for the former is likely “top dollar”.

People on HN are convinced if you don't live in California maximizing your salary, you're not capable of doing so. Highlighted in the sibling comment: "you will get whatever candidates decided to live in Mississippi" As if top talent never decides to live in Mississippi and accept 250k/year as their salary ceiling...

I didn't say that top talent doesn't live in Mississippi, I just said you will get what candidates DO decide to live in Mississippi. If you want top talent, you have to advertise nationally, and be willing to pay the national rate. I live in a city that is quite poor for an employer that is quite large. They pay slightly better than average for the area except for their engineers and upper management, that goes to market rate because they are willing to hire the best available.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#176

Post by encoderer »

bastawhiz wrote: post #140
encoderer wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool tell me more.

I can't get Copilot to generate Python that adds numbers together correctly sometimes. Getting an LLM to generate correct, working code for a language that hardly anybody writes anymore is almost assuredly going to lead to failure.

yeah I agree but when you look at the slope not the y-intercept it’s getting obviously better.

one advantage the government would have is training/fine-tuning on a hundred million lines of domain specific cobol.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#177

Post by ska »

randmeerkat wrote: post #171
ska wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really how it works. They are more than happy to have "market forces" drive up the hourly rates, so long as they get to keep their overhead % fixed, and that's probably how the contract is structured. Win-win (and perhaps -lose for taxpayers).

> That's not really how it works. They are more than happy to have "market forces" drive up the hourly rates That’s exactly how it works, look at contract government salaries compared to anything in the private sector. They charge the government more as rates “go up”, but that certainly isn’t passed along. If large contracting companies really offered value to the government _and_ kept up with market rates for their…

I didn't say that your rate at a govt focussed consultancy would be identical to your rate elsewhere. I probably should have been more explicit.

I rejected the idea that the consultancy would get a rate increase based on "market rates being higher" and then just capture it all - in my (admittedly somewhat limited and path dependent) experience that just isn't how it works. It's more like we pay randmeerkat $X, we bill them out at $X * factor + overhead. "Market forces" mean we have to go Y > X in renewal or we will lose randmeerkat & friends, so now they get $Y and we bill $Y * factor + overhead. It's of course usually more complicated in general, and overhead especially likely isn't that simple.

Nowhere in there is the assertion that X or Y is what randmeerkat would get on the open market. Importantly, their market isn't really "programmers", but "programmers that work in govt + contracting halo". Which is part of why the idea: I could get $N more in SF tech may be compelling for you, but isn't compelling for them (unless too many people actually make that change, instead of just talk about it).

Also there are many other ways they can raise there rates, but if the claim is that it is due to market on the developer salaries that are going to be a line item, there is going to be at least first pass look at a) is that true (find some market data and wave hands) b) did it actually get spent that way (may come up in an audit).

So the real answer seems to be not "They get more and I get nothing" but "I get a bit more, and they get more scaled by what I get", i.e. "win-win".

There is lots wrong with the system of contracting, but I don't think criticizing a cartoony straw-man of it gets anywhere useful.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#178

Post by edgyquant »

Loughla wrote: post #56
wolverine876 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say there are no reprocussions? It's a signicant issue in Congress, which writes all of the Department of Defense's checks, oversees them, investigates them, confirms their leaders, and makes laws controlling everything they do.

And what has failing audits led to in the past?

They haven’t been doing them for very long at all and have had better results pretty much every year since they started.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#179

Post by kulahan »

jfoutz wrote: post #93

I know I'm incredibly naive, and there's no political will to actually make the system work. It seems like various sections and departments are passing audits. If you're within, say, 1% just allocate the funds. If you didn't pass the audit, fill out this form and then get the money. The form can be classified. I have no idea, but I'd imagine like payroll and taxes are pretty much perfect. Once you get a handle on who…

>I have no idea, but I'd imagine like payroll and taxes are pretty much perfect.

It is well-known in the military that WHEN you inevitably get a screwed-up paycheck, if you get too much, it's your problem, because they're 100% sucking that money back out of your account or simply not paying you the next month. If you get too little... well that's also your problem. Good luck - go find someone to spare the time to fix it. It's a pain in the ass.

The system is ancient, unfortunately.

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