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Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

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Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#141

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

ponector wrote: post #93
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #74

Recent blog post about unions that I found interesting: >Let’s say a nation is concerned about poverty. So it passes a law that says the rich will have some of their money redistributed to the poor. But instead of a progressive income tax used to fund cash payments to the unfortunate, the government decides that wealthy people who happened to be born in the spring will give their money to poor people whose birthdays…

You say that only a cartel of CEO could exist? In a regular employee-employer relations there is a big difference in negotiating power. Unions can mitigate that.

>In a regular employee-employer relations there is a big difference in negotiating power.

Not necessarily, it depends on the state of the labor market. You remember a few years ago when the Valley was incredibly hot. Workers had a lot of negotiating power despite being non-unionized.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#143

Post by recursive »

jeffrallen wrote: post #98
olddustytrail wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person who fills in for a striking worker.

A person who puts his own needs above those of his neighbors.

So... everyone? I mean, I put my needs above my neighbors, and yet I've never filled in for a striking worker. This is not a useful description.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#144

Post by epgui »

mrtksn wrote: post #113
fodkodrasz wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you say the same thing as I do: the current betting market (company valuation) seems to be a bit out of touch with reality (company's actual value, that is something along the lines: assets - liabilities + expected revenue*time)

We probably don't disagree but I reject the premise of "fair value" for a stock price. It's not different than Bitcoin price at all, there's no fair value but a price that you think it will increase or decrease. The price, thus market cap can be anything, if Musk can convince his believers to HODL you can end up with market cap larger than the Worlds GDP with trade volumes smaller than a single product they sell.

It’s very different than bitcoin prices.

The speculative aspect of stock prices is a reflection of the time-value of money / discounted future cash flows. This concept does not exist for bitcoin pricing.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#145

Post by evancox100 »

whalesalad wrote: post #136
surgical_fire wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> leached We should use this term more often against the corporations exploiting the workers. I am somewhat ambivalent towards unions - they can sometimes be a blessing or a curse to the workers. It really needs some regulation to ensure they serve the workers rather than serving the ones willing to play union politics. But I am not at all ambivalent on corporations. Their only mandate is profit, and they will exploi…

What I mean is that having a runway where your union members can do literally nothing for 500 years and continue to get paid would suggest there is a monumental amount of cash sitting in a bank. I agree that unions need a rainy day fund, but this seems egregious. If they had said 10 or 20 years, that would make more sense to me.

It's likely that not every union member is striking, it is probably a sectoral union, e.g. the Swedish Dockworkers Union. There is still a lot of other dock-work to do besides unload Teslas, one would assume. So the union has 500 years of funds but that's for some small fraction of the workers.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#146

Post by sroussey »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #131
sisve wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I think you are way of here. I live in Norway, and as far as I know the reason for the immigration problems in sweden is mostly related to taking in a lot of immgrants, much more then other countries did (compared to swedens population) over a long period and then failing to integrated them. Basically creating ghettos. In addition to this the government was to slow with providing additional resources when…

"Failing to integrate them" could be because they struggled to find jobs, due to unions acting as a cartel and shutting competitors out of the labor market. If Norway accepted fewer immigrants, that means that fewer jobs for immigrants are needed. If you accept a lot of immigrants, you'd like to have employment opportunities for _all_ of them. Unionization could cause this problem by lowering demand for unskilled wor…

Failing to integrate works both ways. My family tree is filled with stories about never speaking anything at home other than English.

It had some terrible side effects of communication in the family for that generation.

Also, would have been cool to be bilingual. Maybe. My family tree makes me quite the mutt.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#148

Post by mrtksn »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #135
mrtksn wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, you are technically correct which is the best kind of correct I guess but it's irrelevant IMHO.

It’s actually fundamentally germane to your argument, since in private markets one doesn’t have “large market cap changes because what you are observing is just live betting.” What input you use as “price” is the relevant bit, with the CNBC reductive convention of price = last trade being the source of your problem, not market cap per se .

I see point, maybe I should have been clearer.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#149

Post by lutorm »

natch wrote: post #24

I can’t see this having much impact, because Sweden taxes the bejeezus out of Teslas putting them out of reach for most normal people.

Does it tax Teslas more than other vehicles?

I sure seem to be seeing a lot of Teslas around...

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#150

Post by HissingMachine »

jeffrallen wrote: post #98
olddustytrail wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person who fills in for a striking worker.

A person who puts his own needs above those of his neighbors.

Is the world really that black and white? An unemployed person got a job, is he supposed to decline because someone else didn't want to go to their job because collective bargaining is more important than having a job?
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