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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#491

Post by ahoy »

houseatrielah wrote: post #229
dv_dt wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an interesting comment to me because it gets so much right on how to motivate ditching cars. If you were funding a campaign to eliminate cars to reduce carbon emissions I think you would meet with widespread resistance. If you promote an idea of a higher quality life that is possible w/o cars and explore that - in the end I think you'd end up removing many more cars than the first approach.

I think the root cause is further up the chain of casuality. People need cars because they live in the suburbs, they live in the suburbs because they have children, they want to raise children in more square footage than the urban housing stock offers. Notable exception being Tokyo Ironically, if you look NYC in the 1910s, kids used to play baseball in the street because it wasn't yet overrun by cars, suddenly not en…

"suburbs" dont have to be the unwalkable disasters that we've made them. Brooklyn Heights was "america's first suburb." People moved there from Manhattan seeking everything you just mentioned.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#492

Post by KennyBlanken »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #320
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

throwing money at the NYC subway seems to have a generally great track record (albeit one featuring less efficiency than throwing money at other global subway systems). NYC could not function without it.

The 7 line extension cost over $3 billion dollars in 2023 terms to build 1.5 miles of track from Times Sq to Hudson Yards and build one new station there. I defy anyone to conclude this represented good value.

The NYC transit system costs $20BN/year to operate, serves a population of almost 9M people and pre pandemic had nearly 10 million passenger trips a day; currently 5M.

Montana spends $1BN/year on roadways and receives another $3BN/year in federal funding and serves a population of 1M people.

The NYC subways system moves five times the population of Montana every day and costs half as much per capita.

Do go on about how subways are a waste of money.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#493

Post by mperham »

at_a_remove wrote: post #446
willio58 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life. If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking…

And for those handi-capable folks, what do we do?

Building for pedestrians helps everyone.

https://streets.mn/2023/07/19/if-we-want-a-shift-to-walking-...

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#494

Post by ahoy »

geraldwhen wrote: post #490
camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

My work requires me to come to office on certain days. Not only are there no sidewalks to the office, the roads are egregiously unsafe even in a car. Even if a moped or bike were feasible, there’s nowhere to live within any reasonable distance. The office is isolated on the big acreage it purchased. If I could, I would bike a half hour to work, easily. I can’t. It’s just not safe. Everything is built for big, fast ca…

It's an incredible crime that basically no american can live within 5 miles of their work. Car companies ad the government that capitulated to them fucked us so bad.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#495

Post by ars »

willio58 wrote: post #117
camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life. If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking…

I loath walking more than any other activity. Your utopia sounds like hell of earth for me. I don't want any of those things you mentioned.

I don't want to waste tons of time just getting places, I want to live in an area that is not so congested that traffic is a problem, I want space to live. I do NOT want to be near other people just to get somewhere, or worse live very close to others.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#496

Post by Ar-Curunir »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #295
Glide wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a positive vision of where society can go rather than having to sacrifice and buckle down. Do people not remember riding bikes as kids? Riding a bike is _still_ fun. It never stopped being fun. Now you can do that and get to work.

Riding a bike is not fun if you're doing it to commute - having to do it in all weathers, in traffic that feels unsafe, even if you don't feel like it and got poor sleep etc. It's really fundamentally not the same.

Driving a car if you have not slept is not just a danger to you, but to many other people.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#497

Post by ahoy »

cbozeman wrote: post #306
estebank wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've identified a problem: public transport in some places sucks. But then veered away from the obvious solution: invest in it to make it not suck.

Public transit does not work in a place like Montana or Wyoming. Sorry. Too large, too sparsely populated. Same reason it won't work for most of Texas either. It's fine in Dallas or Austin, parts of Fort Worth... it doesn't scale to Lubbock or New Braunfels. A lot of people have no interest in living in your concrete jungle... myself included.

It doesn't matter if everyone in lubbock drives cars, thats obviously not what this thread of discussion is about and you know it. It matters if everyone in Austin/Dallas/Houston is forced to drive cars. Quit being dense on purpose.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#498

Post by flatline »

School-Cotton wrote: post #219
nicoburns wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn. If it's really 50/50 then that is bad!

It's not, OP was wildly exaggerating.

My coparent had her bike stolen. It was parked at her work - a government building. In front of the security office with a window facing the bike racks, and security cameras on them.

The cameras were not operational, the police did nothing but take the report.

I have had two very securely locked bikes stolen in years past. They were left in what turned out to be a vulnerable place for long periods of time. Depending on your habits it is a matter of when, not if. If you only take the bike to select locations for short periods or keep it out of sight, this does not apply to you.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#499

Post by didntcheck »

PopAlongKid wrote: post #104

Another comment mentioned pros and cons for the user of the ebike. As a frequent pedestrian on the nearby heavily-used trails, I see a number of cons for everyone else: Despite a prohibition on motorized vehicles on these trails, they exploit a loophole for handicapped users, and the agency in charge refuses to do anything to fix it. Even if it makes sense to allow these motorized vehicles, the 15 MPH speed limit is…

Where I live we get delivery cyclists racing down pedestrian precints at scary speeds. And I've similarly thought "someone's gonna get killed here one day, and possibly not the rider". This was true even with ordinary pushbikes or lighweight electric-assist bikes, but in the past couple of years most of the full-time riders seem to have moved to thick tyred and heavy motor-only bikes, which carry a lot of momentum down those busy shopping streets

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#500

Post by rootusrootus »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #354
rootusrootus wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a fat 250lb'er Honestly, I'd worry more about that seat. Bike seats can pinch nerves even if you're not a big guy, and if you are, you probably want to be careful with a narrow seat like that.

Yeah I have a nice leather Brooks ready to do... nice fat rearseat for my fat as.

Good plan! The first time I rode my old bike after some years of neglect and a few extra pounds, I was quite alarmed when I got off the bike and found that some parts of me had fallen asleep. I have a new respect for making sure the seat is a good fit.
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