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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#411

Post by blacksmith_tb »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #295
Glide wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a positive vision of where society can go rather than having to sacrifice and buckle down. Do people not remember riding bikes as kids? Riding a bike is _still_ fun. It never stopped being fun. Now you can do that and get to work.

Riding a bike is not fun if you're doing it to commute - having to do it in all weathers, in traffic that feels unsafe, even if you don't feel like it and got poor sleep etc. It's really fundamentally not the same.

Hmm, at this point I have to be in the office 4 days a week thanks to ratcheting up RTO, but my bike commute is the best thing about that, sitting around during the pandemic just made me lose muscle and feel down. In the PNW, snow and ice aren't usually a problem, so it's just lots of cold rain, but with decent gear that isn't really a problem.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#412

Post by slothtrop »

This has turned in to a r/fuckcars thread.

Zoning reform is the cure, if we want 15 min cities. The market will do the work, if you let it. Plus, many problems are just housing problems in disguise (including homelessness). Rhetoric I see here about banning cars is both redundant and ridiculous. If people have more convenient options, they won't use cars anyway. If you deign to "ban" cars without a replacement people accept and find convenient, not only does that not help anyone, it will be ignored and cast off as fanaticism.

Granted as climate is an issue we want to address in the short-run, that can demand some imperative policy moves to encourage a faster transition. Still need zoning reform first though. Anything resembling "degrowth", however, will just make peoples lives worse in the developing world and here.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#413

Post by bobthepanda »

galangalalgol wrote: post #358
willio58 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If some people need to use cars for mobility or business reasons, that is fine with me. Definitely. For stuff like that, emergency services, delivery, trash collection, etc. larger vehicles on streets are totally fine and I think most would agree. I don't even necessarily think we should ban all cars, but we should definitely stop incentivizing them by heavily subsidizing car infrastructure with city budgets funded…

On another HN thread it was discussed that because road wear and tire wear and hence micro plastics, scale to the fourth with vehicle weight, a few large delivery vehicles are far worse than many lighter ones. It is better for us all to use the lightest vehicle we can to go get groceries and take our garbage to the recycling facility (or landfill) than to have trahs trucks, delivery trucks, or busses move us about. T…

At the same time larger vehicles generally have a better engine size to capacity ratio, so if you don’t want to pillage the earth for raw earths, lithium, cobalt etc. then large vehicles are still good.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#414

Post by steve_adams_86 »

I hadn’t properly calculated how much my e bike saves in energy and oil until now. I always think of it in terms of maintenance reduced and fuel not consumed with the car I already own… But at this point it has completely prevented the purchase of second vehicle.

I bet it’s the same for many people like me. I guess I’m around year 3 of not needing a second car. In fact, I bought a home with a two car garage because I anticipate needing a second car… But not yet, and probably not in the foreseeable future.

It’s strange to think of. That happened very organically. I always had the expectation of needing the second car, but because of this cargo bike, I’ve found ways to avoid it. I always thought it was expensive ($7k CAD) but now I feel like it was really, really cheap.

I guess my car-centric brain didn’t believe I could actually avoid the second vehicle. There’s sacrifice for sure, it’s not a perfect replacement, but it’s a great one. I hope this trend continues.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#415

Post by kyleee »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #295
Glide wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a positive vision of where society can go rather than having to sacrifice and buckle down. Do people not remember riding bikes as kids? Riding a bike is _still_ fun. It never stopped being fun. Now you can do that and get to work.

Riding a bike is not fun if you're doing it to commute - having to do it in all weathers, in traffic that feels unsafe, even if you don't feel like it and got poor sleep etc. It's really fundamentally not the same.

A bike ride is much more invigorating than driving the car. I feel much better after even a short bike ride. No similar benefit from driving a car.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#416

Post by jjcoffman »

kfarr wrote: post #190
jjcoffman wrote: post #119

Something I’ve thought a lot about is why don’t we have more support around golf cart and golf cart adjacent vehicles? They are fairly cheap compared to a car, can be BEV, drive around on most city streets, fractions of the weight and danger to pedestrians etc. I know it doesn’t work in a lot of areas due to weather etc, but it seems like an obvious stop-gap solution. It is also kind of “cool” to drive around in a go…

I agree and love the electrek dude and his Chinese import mini truck, but automobile companies are trying to make money. Selling a plastic molded macho truck for 90k fully loaded is a high ticket item with relatively good margins compared to low cost mini cars. The incentive tends towards gigantic tanks, not a joke, it fulfills fragile human ego and makes a bunch of money. Here’s the link I refer to above, it’s a gre…

It doesn’t have to be big car manufactures though. In fact there are already many golf cart manufactures which can drive on roads with speed limits lower than 40 (or something like that. In CA)

Most cities now have 40+ limit roads though which makes it impractical or impossible to use them. A tweak to that law would make them viable. Also, brand new they are like $10k

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#417

Post by adrianN »

baryphonic wrote: post #53
thelastgallon wrote: post #2

We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…

Energy efficiency is not the only variable that matters. Walking to my grocery store would take almost two hours each way. Biking would take 30 minutes each direction. Driving is 14 minutes each way, and is the only feasible way I can get groceries when I have my kids in tow (which sometimes is a necessity).

I’d never even consider living anywhere where it‘d take me 15 minutes to the grocery store no matter what mode of transport. How long is your commute? I have like ten grocery stores in fifteen minute cycling distance, the closest is two minutes away.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#419

Post by Workaccount2 »

FredPret wrote: post #241
david-gpu wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived in Toronto, Canada, for 15 years and never had a car. My family gets around all year by walking, public transit and cycling. Most people live in urban centers where it is perfectly possible to live without a car. And as car use decreases, public transit availability will increase, together with other forms of transportation that don't have the externalities of private motor vehicles.

I did the same in Toronto. Then I bought a car. Night and day. Life became 10x easier. Suddenly Costco trips were possible. Weekend trips to cottage country. Visiting friends on the other side of town was a two-hour TTC (Toronto's public transit) ordeal; suddenly it became a 15-minute comfortable, safe, addict-free, warm car ride.

People who think their will be this mass migration away from personal cars once buses, trains, and bike paths are everywhere are completely delusional.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#420

Post by steve_adams_86 »

davidw wrote: post #21

I do almost all the grocery shopping for our family of 4 with a Rad Runner Plus with a large basket and bag. I love that bike. Even as someone pretty comfortable getting around on a 'regular' bike, having that extra power just makes it a really easy choice for more trips compared to the car. If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. If it's cold ou…

My grocery store is a 7m ride along a regional bike trail, fully protected both ways. It beats a car any day, and it’s actually faster because the bike trail basically bee-lines to the store.

It’s awesome. One of those lame things you get excited about as an adult.

My vacuum cleaner works really well and I can ride my bike to the grocery store. I’ve truly made it.

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