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Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

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Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#261

Post by wannacboatmovie »

dataflow wrote: post #218
wannacboatmovie wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that you can make > $20/hr flipping burgers in Seattle I'd say you are off by an order of magnitude. No reasonable skilled tradesman (or even unskilled handyman) is doing anything for $20. It's borderline insulting. They have expenses, fuel, insurance. Most charge $100 as a trip fee.

> Considering that you can make > $20/hr flipping burgers in Seattle I'd say you are off by an order of magnitude. No reasonable skilled tradesman (or even unskilled handyman) is doing anything for $20. It's borderline insulting. > They have expenses, fuel, insurance. I think you missed important details in their post: >> tasks I wanted done that would only take someone with the right skills and equipment a few minut…

Let's extend the idea to unlicensed dentistry too. For $20 I'll remove your tooth with a pair of pliers. It'll take less than 5 minutes.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#262

Post by atomicnumber3 »

massysett wrote: post #209
atomicnumber3 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP could almost be describing my house. New construction, coax to every room, no ethernet. And the builder specifically warned me not to try to use the existing coax to pull a new drop because it's all filled with fireproof foam/insulation stuff.

It’s always possible to run new Ethernet cable. Just think like a cable TV installation technician. Run it on the surface, drill through walls and fish as needed. Run it along the exterior if needed. It’s always possible. Not always pretty, but possible.

I develop software for a living, my capabilities at layer 1 are quite limited.

Also my wife would not go for visible Ethernet run like that. I'd have to hire a contractor to do drywall work to have it done right.

I have managed to get Ethernet everywhere I want for the most part though, thanks to a luckily positioned unfinished half of the basement and garage, where visible cables are fine and I can just pop through walls here and there.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#263

Post by 8zah6q7 »

stiray wrote: post #247

I had my mileage in wifi/routers development and I will say you just a proverb: "The one who knows how wireless works, uses cable." ;) When renovating an apartment I have put a shitload of ethernet sockets everywhere, there is no place in 80m2 apartment, where you would be more than 2m away of nearest (including toilet) and as 4 of them were not enough behind TV, I have added a router there. Wifi is just a patch if y…

Unfortunately, many smart TVs use 100 Mbps RJ45 ports, so WiFi is usually faster. Some TVs allow you to plug in a USB to RJ45 adapter, but most of the USB ports are only USB 2 speed, so the practical limit is 300 Mbps. Some nice ones have USB 3 ports enabling 1 Gbps through an RJ45 adapter. I wish the manufacturers put at least gigabit (if not 2.5 Gbps) RJ45 ports on TVs.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#264

Post by bobbob1921 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #257
tzs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We moved, and it's not feasible to run ethernet everywhere in our current home. However, whoever built the home ran coax to nearly every room in the house - it's a bit ridiculous How old is the house? If its more than 20ish years old running coax everywhere was a great choice. That would be before CAT5e cable so if they had went with ethernet cable instead of coax you'd be looking at 100 Mb/s. If it was built befor…

Reading you both... I am 45. Last year, before I moved to a new house, I decided to run CAT8 Ethernet everywhere. Some people told me that they consider this excessive, but compared to the cost of the house, the extra cost was negligible and I hope this network will do well into the 2050s.

Definitely a great move and idea. One thing people frequently overlook when buying higher end CAT x copper cable is the thicker the cable the more difficult (some cases impossible) to attach an RJ45 head/plug or Keystone type connector. Additionally, it can become much more difficult to flex/bend, especially if considering it in an electrical gang box for a face plate. This is why frequently you’ll see “cat 8” bulk cable for not much more than cat 6E bulk cable.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#265

Post by leptons »

stiray wrote: post #247

I had my mileage in wifi/routers development and I will say you just a proverb: "The one who knows how wireless works, uses cable." ;) When renovating an apartment I have put a shitload of ethernet sockets everywhere, there is no place in 80m2 apartment, where you would be more than 2m away of nearest (including toilet) and as 4 of them were not enough behind TV, I have added a router there. Wifi is just a patch if y…

I'm glad wifi exists. It's very useful. It isn't always 100% reliable, but I don't really expect it to be. I have 7 wifi routers around my property for different uses. 5 of them are for IoT devices so they can live on their own network. 2 of the wifi routers are for my family's personal devices.

But every computer I use other than my laptops are wired with cat6 or better. I even run an ethernet line all the way out to the separated garage because I have a backup computer out there.

Ethernet is great, but wifi is also pretty great, they each have their use cases.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#266

Post by wkat4242 »

FFP999 wrote: post #181
wkat4242 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first Ethernet was on coax yes. It was also a shared physical bus so the 10 megabit was often shared among a room full of computers. Despite this it felt speedy!! But times have changed a lot. In those days there was more focus on collision detection and avoidance which is no longer relevant with today's switches. Ps it was not the same coax as for TV. TV coax has 75 ohms impedance. Ethernet (and most radio equip…

> Despite this it felt speedy!! When the most common data transfer technology is a POTS modem that can do 56kb/second...

Think more like 2400 or 9600 bps actually :)

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#267

Post by Dylan16807 »

graphe wrote: post #227
babypuncher wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 4k blu ray rips range between 60 and 100 GB. These would not even be close watchable over 20mb/s. Let's not even talk about how miserable it would be to download modern games over this.

Streaming 20mb/s is more than sufficient for video. I don't transfer 60gb blurays daily so it doesn't matter to me.

1. It's not enough when you're on an active connection doing other things at the same time as the video. Live streams at full quality will use a third to half of 20Mbps and demand very little interruption. Loading a single page with a few images can interfere. And even dedicated 20Mbps, with tightly encoded content, can be too little for 4k.

2. The idea in the comment is streaming at original bluray quality. Not transferring.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#268

Post by msla »

projektfu wrote: post #202
good8675309 wrote: post #121

Ethernet at 50 and still not slowing down - a testament to the saying 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it.' It's remarkable how this old-school tech has remained relevant in an age of wireless everything. Makes me think of my tech stack, Java, monolith, sql db, etc. and it keeps serving all of my paying customers reliably, even though I'm not using the latest everything.

I think the only part that hasn't been "fixed" is that it sends frames. 10Base-T is a new topology and cable with the bus virtualized in a hub. Switched Ethernet is like a different, intelligent network larping as Ethernet to naive stations. Signaling changes as you increase data rates and media now stretches from copper to fiber and the standard has retired baseband coax above 10Mbps. It's cool that they've made it…

> I think the only part that hasn't been "fixed" is that it sends frames.

And this is just terminology: An Ethernet protocol data unit is a frame because it's Ethernet and an IP protocol data unit is a packet because it's IP. You could switch the terms around and nothing would actually change.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#269

Post by kornhole »

Ah brings back memories of Bob Metcalfe. Out of college I worked for him at 3Com. We were making about three million NIC's a month, and it was like a cash machine. One of my first projects to support was trying to develop WIFI. We failed at that. Then Intel integrated the NIC capability into their chipsets. Cisco made better switches and routers. We went from a high flying silicon valley company to nothing.

Re: Ethernet Is Still Going Strong After 50 Years

#270

Post by jmathai »

8zah6q7 wrote: post #263
stiray wrote: post #247

I had my mileage in wifi/routers development and I will say you just a proverb: "The one who knows how wireless works, uses cable." ;) When renovating an apartment I have put a shitload of ethernet sockets everywhere, there is no place in 80m2 apartment, where you would be more than 2m away of nearest (including toilet) and as 4 of them were not enough behind TV, I have added a router there. Wifi is just a patch if y…

Unfortunately, many smart TVs use 100 Mbps RJ45 ports, so WiFi is usually faster. Some TVs allow you to plug in a USB to RJ45 adapter, but most of the USB ports are only USB 2 speed, so the practical limit is 300 Mbps. Some nice ones have USB 3 ports enabling 1 Gbps through an RJ45 adapter. I wish the manufacturers put at least gigabit (if not 2.5 Gbps) RJ45 ports on TVs.

Faster, but probably less reliable and more inconsistent. For this reason, I wire my TVs into the network :)
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