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The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

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Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#311

Post by YetAnotherNick »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #294
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? All they are claiming is that current version is open source and will remain open source. How is it different than stopping maintaining it altogether?

Because they released it as open source purely to lure people in and get them using it enough so that switching away would be difficult for them. If they're up-front with people and mention that it'll be open source up until a time of their choosing, after which subsequent versions will be proprietary, then I don't see a problem and no-one's getting tricked. When I'm choosing an open source tool to use, then I want t…

Any open source code that requires constant maintenance either has FAANG support or would switch license in the future. I don't think that donation or pay for support could pay market rate to talented developers except in a rarest of rare case(e.g. sqlite which has very high user to developer ratio).

Just treat not open source product differently than open source. Assume that the current version is all you are getting in open source.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#312

Post by mistrial9 »

cedws wrote: post #305

If you want be compensated for your project, license your project appropriately and sell licenses/corporate support. Nobody's going to throw money at you out of the goodness of their heart, that's not how the world works. If you burn yourself out on serving your entitled users for free, that's on you, not on them. You've created that sense of entitlement. You're an adult capable of saying "no" or "pay me."

this single-point-of-view analysis fails to account for market dynamics over time, adoption of innovation, commodity markets, disruptive inventions.. and many, many other things that someone with experience and real critical thinking skills would discover quickly with any research on the topic.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#313

Post by PoutCo »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #299
PoutCo wrote: post #298

The last time I checked the statistics, approximately 75% of the industry's codebase was open source—a significant portion! However, when it comes to the earnings of open-source developers, it's almost negligible. I strongly believe that open-source contributors should be compensated for their work. So, in my opinion, there's a real need to establish an open-source economy where contributors can be fairly compensated…

I think in the minds of many, software patents are the means of getting people to disclose their source. But they currently don't work that way anywhere. (edit: actually IIRC it's fine to sometimes promote what you're doing on HN, so long as it's not Every Single Post) . Can you tell us a bit more?

Open Source Projects should take inspiration from how companies pay people. There are some very good ideas in how companies distribute revenues and compensate individuals. We just need to take the best parts of this approach and blend them with our open-source principles, and we will have the best of both worlds.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#314

Post by OkayPhysicist »

PoutCo wrote: post #298

The last time I checked the statistics, approximately 75% of the industry's codebase was open source—a significant portion! However, when it comes to the earnings of open-source developers, it's almost negligible. I strongly believe that open-source contributors should be compensated for their work. So, in my opinion, there's a real need to establish an open-source economy where contributors can be fairly compensated…

The sustainable route for open source projects is individuals being paid by an company to implement functionality that the employer wants in a given project, and then being obligated under the license to share those changes. Those individuals could be employees of the company, or contractors, including the person who wrote the software in the first place.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#315

Post by 38 »

zackmorris wrote: post #307
ranting-moth wrote: post #13

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. If someone releases code then that's it. You have it. Do what you want with it (within it's licence). Be thankful. Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing more you ungrateful little git. If you add this code to your project, you should fix and share any problems you e…

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. Do you have standards? It doesn't sound like you do. People with healthy boundaries set standards for themselves as far as what they give to others and what treatment they accept in return. I think the fallacy in your argument is that you're blaming contributors for noticing that they aren't being compensated for the work they've done, rather…

> I think the fallacy in your argument is that you're blaming contributors for noticing that they aren't being compensated for the work they've done, rather than blaming others for using that work

That's the exact opposite of what they are doing. They are blaming the users for expecting more than they should. They should expect nothing more than literally just the current version of the code, as is.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#316

Post by anon291 »

rpastuszak wrote: post #157
lakpan wrote: post #7

The annoying part in this debate is people spending their lives on a project and demanding to be paid for it. Don’t do it! Who’s asking you to work on it? I say this as a minor OSS developer who receives some donations. I love the money, but it would be pretty dumb for me to say they oughta pay me, because the only reason I work on it is addiction/compulsion/procrastination of real work. If it bothered me that people…

> The annoying part in this debate is people spending their lives on a project and demanding to be paid for it. > Don’t do it! Who’s asking you to work on it? I think the issue here is that we don't have a system where being an OSS contributor is a sustainable career path. The value we get from OSS compared to the monetary compensation for that work is disproportionately small. OSS generally doesn't depend on an army…

> I think the issue here is that we don't have a system where being an OSS contributor is a sustainable career path.

Why should it be? Most OSS authors get paid to work on their stuff by some company who wants it. If there's no one willing to hire you, then your software is not worth it. I don't mean this negatively. I have lots of open source projects that are not worth it. I have one that I've been hired to work on before, but am no longer working on it anymore

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#317

Post by idontpost »

zackmorris wrote: post #307
ranting-moth wrote: post #13

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. If someone releases code then that's it. You have it. Do what you want with it (within it's licence). Be thankful. Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing more you ungrateful little git. If you add this code to your project, you should fix and share any problems you e…

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. Do you have standards? It doesn't sound like you do. People with healthy boundaries set standards for themselves as far as what they give to others and what treatment they accept in return. I think the fallacy in your argument is that you're blaming contributors for noticing that they aren't being compensated for the work they've done, rather…

[dead]

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#318

Post by anon291 »

rpastuszak wrote: post #264
sevagh wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think the issue here is that we don't have a system where being an OSS contributor is a sustainable career path. They knew that before they started.

I meant it in a general sense, I think we'd be in a better place as a society if this model of work was easier to follow/more mainstream.

> I think we'd be in a better place as a society if this model of work was easier to follow/more mainstream.

Why?

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#319

Post by mandmandam »

BeetleB wrote: post #286
rpastuszak wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The annoying part in this debate is people spending their lives on a project and demanding to be paid for it. > Don’t do it! Who’s asking you to work on it? I think the issue here is that we don't have a system where being an OSS contributor is a sustainable career path. The value we get from OSS compared to the monetary compensation for that work is disproportionately small. OSS generally doesn't depend on an army…

> I think the issue here is that we don't have a system where being an OSS contributor is a sustainable career path. As is true for many (most?) crafts. If I am an artist (e.g. painting, digital art, etc). and give my work away for free, my fellow artists are not going to sympathize with my inability to make a living. Ditto photography ("look at all these companies taking my free stock photos and not giving me any mo…

That's why basic income is so, so necessary.

Let people do creative work without needing to work for exploitative corporate ghouls, and let the world-killing planet-burning exploiters cry themselves to sleep on their mega-yachts about it.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#320

Post by OkayPhysicist »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #267
xoac wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I make a really nice server and give it away for free. Some guy making 300k a year uses it to build something else and gets a promotion so now he makes 400k a year and his company is now making millions. They've exploited my freely available software to acheive this goal. Sure they could have invested to build it again (perhaps by paying me to build it? or by licensing my software from me?) but instead they get th…

I agree that commercialising open source software can be exploitative and obviously, that why the GPL was thought necessary to try to stop that kind of behaviour (or at least ensure that the resultant code was also open source). But with non-commercial usage, I don't see it as exploiting the author as they wanted to write it for their own reasons and had no interest in commercialising it or believed it to be non-viab…

There isn't a problem with companies using software licensed under the MIT. There's a problem with the developer who made it: they're devaluing software as a whole. If companies get into the habit of receiving software for free, without any limitations, they value software as a whole less.

In contrast, a good, upstanding developer publishing under the GPL/LGPL/AGPL doesn't create the same negative externality: they establish that the cost of using open source software is contributing to open source software. Which should be the cost of open source software. Want functionality added to a project? Add it yourself, or hire somebody to add it, and then share the result openly. The original person who wrote the code is a pretty compelling candidate for that contract, but far from the only person available.

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