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Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

breakingdefense.com

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Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#31

Post by DougWebb »

Mistletoe wrote: post #3

Can anyone explain to me why it is awful for a person to live in debt but it is okay for the federal government to do so? I've never understood this in the least, other than the "kick the can down the road, America superpower backed by military blah, blah, blah" very weak argument. History is full of the carnage of failed empires that had this same idea. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN 32 trillion in debt…

I'm hardly an expert, but I think "government debt" and "government investment" are accounted for the same way, but only the former is a problem. If the government sells bonds/T-bills (eg acquires debt) and uses that to improve the country in a way that benefits the citizens and encourages population and economic growth, then its worth doing. If the government uses the money only to pay interest on existing debt, or to give it away to make wealthy citizens more wealthy, or other unproductive uses, then it's not so good.

The attacks directly on the national debt are a political strawman, meant to distract from the real issues about where revenue comes from and how it is spent. It's like the constant debt ceiling wailing; Congress sets a budget and legislation that requires spending more than the revenue available, then sets a debt ceiling that prevents the treasure from borrowing to cover the required by law spending, then bitches and moans and grandstands over how the debt ceiling creates a crisis. It's all for show.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#32

Post by malux85 »

l33t7332273 wrote: post #28
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, let me use that excuse with the IRS and this how it works.

IRS exists to give those organizations money, so they’re more of a client and you’re more of a product.

Product is a very diplomatic way of saying Lunch

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#33

Post by mbfg »

nradov wrote: post #4

It's important to understand the history here. Failing the audit isn't necessarily due to some sort of fraud or abuse (although there likely are isolated instances). The problem is that for decades Congress never allocated funds to put proper financial controls in place so naturally the accounting systems are a disconnected jumbled mess. When they started annual audits everyone knew they would fail so that was no sur…

incompetence is fraud, when displayed over time.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#35

Post by uticus »

DrNosferatu wrote: post #16
Mistletoe wrote: post #3

Can anyone explain to me why it is awful for a person to live in debt but it is okay for the federal government to do so? I've never understood this in the least, other than the "kick the can down the road, America superpower backed by military blah, blah, blah" very weak argument. History is full of the carnage of failed empires that had this same idea. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN 32 trillion in debt…

That’s the Fallacy of Composition - the economics of a government are not the economics of a grocery store or a household: https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/21/post-crash-...

Sorry, but 'Fallacy of Composition' is just a theory. (Disclaimer: I happen to disagree with it.)

Ultimately the way these ideas about economic theory are approached is a lot more philosophical/religious-based (for the Atheists, please read that 'strong belief-based') and a lot less math based than some would be willing to admit. Honestly the math itself is usually statistical, which in turn is a lot more difficult to comprehend and analyze properly.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#36

Post by fbdab103 »

logicchains wrote: post #17
digitalengineer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small correction: it’s awful for a poor person to live in debt. If you are quite wealthy there are lots of ways to borrow money and it’s all good!

>If you are quite wealthy there are lots of ways to borrow money and it’s all good! If you have a negative net worth (more debt than assets) you're generally not considered a wealthy person.

Perception is everything. For quite a while, Sam Bankman-Fried was billions in the hole, but could still secure more funds on demand.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#37

Post by marricks »

nradov wrote: post #4

It's important to understand the history here. Failing the audit isn't necessarily due to some sort of fraud or abuse (although there likely are isolated instances). The problem is that for decades Congress never allocated funds to put proper financial controls in place so naturally the accounting systems are a disconnected jumbled mess. When they started annual audits everyone knew they would fail so that was no sur…

Eisenhower warned this would be a thing and here we are, it's a thing. The best we will ever get is the illusion of spending being under control.

It's wild, but whenever a big change occurs there's always smart folks who knew what was going to happen and exactly called it out. Usually as a "ok guys be careful cause X could happen" and X inevitably does.

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#38

Post by MrMetlHed »

Worked with a guy ten years ago that would obsessively read these reports from the Pentagon. Here's a couple of his stories about the matter: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/pentagon/ and https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-mari... (very old and I apologize for my horrific javascript at the time.)

It sounds like nothing has changed. Relevant to this crowd, maybe: "Most of the Cobol code the Pentagon uses for payroll and accounting was written in the 1960s, according to 2006 congressional testimony by Zack Gaddy, director of DFAS from May 2004 to September 2008."

"Wallace, the Army assistant deputy chief of staff, says the system has "seven million lines of Cobol code that hasn't been updated" in more than a dozen years, and significant parts of the code have been "corrupted." The older it gets, the harder it is to maintain. As DFAS itself said: "As time passes, the pool of Cobol expertise dwindles.""

Re: Pentagon fails audit for sixth year in a row

#39

Post by l33t7332273 »

askonomm wrote: post #18
teaearlgraycold wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I don’t know if what the government is doing is the best long term decision. But the US’s national debt could be compared to a mortgage. And the government’s income is massive so they can be in trillions of debt without it exceeding what they can reasonably pay off (never paying it all off, but paying off individual loans). So by your analogy, is it actually bad for a normal person to be in debt? Normal people hav…

Has the number ever decreased? As in, have they actually paid things off? Without actual numbers, U.S feels increasingly like a high-school bully who borrows money and then threatens with violence when that money is wanted back.

I don’t think US really threatens violence when people collect on the public debt. This is quite rare historically because it makes people weary to lend you money.

Payments, including interest, are regularly made and of course individual debts are paid all the time.

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