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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#71

Post by cogman10 »

kragen wrote: post #32

if this is what passes for 'academic rigour, journalistic flair' > Their batteries make them heavier than a traditional car, and draw heavily on the extraction of rare earth elements i think your academy is a diploma mill quoting https://www.sneci.com/blog/are-rare-earths-an-issue-in-the-p... which actually does have something resembling academic rigor > 15 years ago, the first hybrid vehicles, notably the Toyota Pri…

Yup, lots of anti-battery stuff is propaganda pretending like we still drive around with NiCd batteries.

Even the weight argument is wrong! A model Y weighs up to 4,555 lbs. A Ford edge weighs up to 4520 lbs.

As it turns out, ICE are really super heavy. Strip that out and have a steadily increasing battery density as we've seen over the years and it really won't be long before EVs are in fact lighter than ICE counterparts (and certainly lighter than hybrids).

These articles are all written with anecdotes from 2000.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#73

Post by nordsieck »

baxuz wrote: post #18
supermatt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, IIRC in terms of kJ/km cycling is ~4x more efficient than walking (on flat surface). I guess they must be talking about the energy used in production, etc.

It's closer to 6x.

I mean, the number will really depend on how fast people are biking. Over 20mph, efficiency starts to really take a hit. Unless you use some sort of crazy shell.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#74

Post by local_crmdgeon »

kibwen wrote: post #19

Would anyone here like to recommend (or disrecommend) any e-bike models?

Cheap and cheerful: Priority Current.

Longer-term: Specialized Globe Haul. I feel the same way about it as I do my pickup truck - it can go anywhere, do anything, and seems incredibly happy to either cruise around town or eat shit for hours. I absolutely adore it and cannot recommend it enough. It also has a big dealer network, something you don't get with the DTC boys

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#75

Post by aftbit »

thelastgallon wrote: post #2

We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…

Certainly in the Bay it's pretty easy to get by with no car at all - just rent or borrow one if you want to take a trip to Tahoe every once in a while. If you go deeper into the country though, there are many places where car ownership is nearly mandatory, especially for people who can't WFH.

EVs are pretty close to being able to replace ICE cars around here, but still can't match the range, cost, or longevity of an ICE vehicle. I could do 80%+ of my miles in an EV, but once or twice a year, we take a 1000 mile road trip that would be considerably more painful in an EV. If we're only going to own one car, it still needs to be ICE.

That said, I do own two cars. One of them is a 2001 Ford truck that is on its last legs. It's not very environmentally friendly to run, but given that I put so few miles on it per year, it's probably better than causing a new car to be produced, regardless of its technology.

Would I still be able to run a 2023 EV in 2044? Will the batteries last that long, with any sort of usable range?

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#76

Post by giobox »

bigfudge wrote: post #45
rglullis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think it's actually just anglo countries. The UK is batshit about cars as well, and I don't think the Aussies are much better.

This is seemingly changing in UK - younger generations increasingly don't own a private vehicle, due to a whole host of factors including the fact there simply isn't nearly as many affordable cars on the UK market as there was say 20 years ago, as well as the cost of fuel/insurance. It will be interesting to see if trends reverse once cheap EVs inevitably become a thing over the next decade - even entry level EVs are generally significantly more expensive than entry level gas cars used to be in the UK for the time being.

> https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a81dd5340f0b...

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#77

Post by jxcl »

kragen wrote: post #32

if this is what passes for 'academic rigour, journalistic flair' > Their batteries make them heavier than a traditional car, and draw heavily on the extraction of rare earth elements i think your academy is a diploma mill quoting https://www.sneci.com/blog/are-rare-earths-an-issue-in-the-p... which actually does have something resembling academic rigor > 15 years ago, the first hybrid vehicles, notably the Toyota Pri…

It's worth noting that Cobalt is now the problem element for BEVs [1], though there is a lot of work that is being done and has been done to reduce the amount of cobalt in Lithium Ion batteries.

[1]: https://apnews.com/article/congo-mining-human-rights-73b3edc...

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#78

Post by frognumber »

Death and pain.

That's what e-bikes and mopeds bring to my city. The infrastructures is designed for pedestrians, cars, and mass transit. Bicycles are being retrofitted. It's completely NOT designed for dozens of oddball vehicles which are coming up. The people riding them aren't as competent as cyclists (which isn't a very high bar) and cause unsafe situations all the time.

That's my city. Yours might be different. I've been to cities where these worked great, and loved them. Here, they're pure evil and a menace.

TL;DR: This needs planning, infrastructure changes, and regulation. With that, this might be the solution. Without that, a lot of cities will be in trouble.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#79

Post by [deleted] »

crawdog wrote: post #39

This is an area that government subsidies could really influence change in urban planning and cutting oil demand. If there was a similar subsidy on bikes as there are on electric cars, I would expect the push back against bike infrastructure would become less. Right now in the Bay Area through poor design and aging infrastructure there is push back on bike lanes. An example is the Richmond bridge, which has a protect…

[deleted]
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