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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#21

Post by davidw »

I do almost all the grocery shopping for our family of 4 with a Rad Runner Plus with a large basket and bag.

I love that bike. Even as someone pretty comfortable getting around on a 'regular' bike, having that extra power just makes it a really easy choice for more trips compared to the car. If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. If it's cold out, I can really layer up and not worry about sweating because I overdressed. I just use the motor more.

Edit: I'll add that like many things in life, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. We still have an automobile that we use, but the bike has replaced a lot of car trips. For some people a bike might not replace as many. Some might be able to ditch the car entirely. But it all helps!

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#22

Post by s0rce »

kibwen wrote: post #19

Would anyone here like to recommend (or disrecommend) any e-bike models?

An easy bet is buying from a good existing bike company like Specialized. High end ebikes from Gazelle and Riese and Muller are also good. Avoid low end generic and drop shipped Chinese imports unless you really have no budget but you might have issues and you won't have support for repairs.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#23

Post by kjkjadksj »

kibwen wrote: post #15
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #8

Eliminating the daily commute for those who have jobs where in person presence isn't essential beats all other forms of transportation. But activists, cities, and greenwash companies have all shown their true face, each for their own reasons of self-interest.

This is part of it, but people still need to leave their house sometime, and the best solution is one where people can survive without needing to own a car at all, which is nearly impossible in most of the US. We sold our nation's soul to cars, and now we're fighting to get it back.

Yet the commute is a full ten trips a week you can eliminate. People aren’t running errands 10x a week. The clear roads and clear skies early in the pandemic showed us what this would look like if more people worked remotely.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#24

Post by Filligree »

kibwen wrote: post #19

Would anyone here like to recommend (or disrecommend) any e-bike models?

Riese & Mueller are great if you can afford them.

You pay through the nose, but they're not really built like bicycles. You should be comparing to mopeds (or cars!), not muscle-powered two-wheelers. Do make sure to get the high-speed model, though; there's not a lot of use for the strengthened components if you're limited to regular bicycling speeds.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#25

Post by LUmBULtERA »

thelastgallon wrote: post #2

We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…

Is taking an ebike really that efficient if its going to be stolen? I kid.. because I have one. But I take 3 locks with me when I need to leave it unattended...

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#26

Post by uoaei »

It's good that the batteries are many times smaller than electric cars and trucks. I still have a problem with the accounting being focused on what the consumer directly experiences rather than the full lifecycle of the vehicle (manufacturing, logistics of vehicle and spare parts, and disposal) but I don't think it changes the conclusions much except maybe a minor edit to the ranking by kilometer-people per ton of CO2e emitted when compared to other forms of transportation.

I did the math on my 2000s Jeep and I would need to drive it for about 20,000 miles (5 years of usage in my case) in order just to emit the same as the production of a single Model S battery, not including building the rest of the car and bringing it to the consumer. I think we could do a lot better to emphasize buying used cars/bikes/everything especially if we reorient the accounting to reflect the emissions that consumers are typically insulated from. Frontloading our emissions kind of defeats the purpose of Nordhaus-style climate economics accounting...

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#27

Post by s0rce »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #8

Eliminating the daily commute for those who have jobs where in person presence isn't essential beats all other forms of transportation. But activists, cities, and greenwash companies have all shown their true face, each for their own reasons of self-interest.

I bike to work and don't mind my commute. I have to be in the office but even if I don't have in person (lab) work that day I still come in since the rest of the team is here. As long as you don't have a terrible office culture (I haven't had this experience in my career) or a long car commute its not so bad. I have done a longer car commute and it sucks.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#29

Post by kibwen »

drunner wrote: post #16
johnea wrote: post #3

I'm not really sure where in the US people live that makes them think transportation can be replaced by a bike. I live in San Diego, the climate is great, but there is no way a person can travel any farther than their neighborhood on a bike. The main impediment at this point is the outrageous price of EVs in the US. In China cheap EVs are readily available, trade policies are preventing their import into the US. Bike…

And that is a long standing failure in urban planning in the US. Cities that don't support walking/biking/public transit stupid, but just accepted as the norm here. The whole I-10 thing in LA right now cracks me up. Like they are begging people "please take the bus/train, don't drive", because 1 road closed. Imagine if the bus/train was already preferred because the infrastructure was so much better. Imagine if all t…

> The damage is so deep that it feels irreversible at this point, like the US will be doomed to cars and traffic forever.

There's lots of energy to change things, but you need to find the right city. It will still take 50 years to even approach the level of Amsterdam, but here in Boston I live car-free and the bike infrastructure is getting better every year. Right now the problem is density: solving the car problem ultimately means building dense housing.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#30

Post by kjkjadksj »

count wrote: post #7
johnea wrote: post #3

I'm not really sure where in the US people live that makes them think transportation can be replaced by a bike. I live in San Diego, the climate is great, but there is no way a person can travel any farther than their neighborhood on a bike. The main impediment at this point is the outrageous price of EVs in the US. In China cheap EVs are readily available, trade policies are preventing their import into the US. Bike…

To be fair, San Diego seems like it was designed specifically to be hostile to non-car travel, especially around the valleys and passes between the hills. Downtown/GasLamp are totally viable with just an e-bike (and probably over into Coronado), bus as soon as you have to leave that area, I'd agree, non-viable. I haven't worked or lived in any other city quite that brutally bad for bikes though?

San diego coastal neighborhoods are fine. I saw a lot of bikes and cargo ebikes going to the ralphs in pacific beach. The whole greater mission bay area seems pretty idyllic from a biking perspective tbh.
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