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The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

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Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#241
I understand this is a jaded take, but it's not wrong.

Open source entered a bubble because companies started requiring active open source contributions to staff+ engineering requirements. The model was never sustainable. A select few contribute to open source out of sheer passion, but the majority are/were using it as a career advancement mechanism or network effect.

The result is that major companies were able to advance their technology and profits rapidly off of people's free work. The result is better products, services, and tooling for everyone, but let's not kid ourselves about who benefits most from open source: large companies.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#242
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those two things are connected. People will spend $10 on a coffee drink at Starbucks without blinking. Suggest that they spend $10 on a piece of software and they’ll throw a fit and claim you are taking away their rights.

People will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on proprietary software. Most of those people won’t spend $100 on open source software.

In businesses I've observed this behavior tends to surround dysfunctions in liability and understanding of liability organizationally and from business management.

If you make a purchasing decision, your ass is on the line when people ask why certain product/service isn't fulfilling some arbitrary business need. In theory, assuming the functionality is part of the advertised purchase, the liability of the thing you're paying for lies on that third party. You did your due diligence. If you chose some open source combination with in-house build, they're going to question why you didn't outsource some envisioned cheaper third party option (sometimes, this is a legitimate strategy, often from my experience it's not). So you default to big vendor big solution to protect yourself.

Apologies are made and blah blah, discussions about "what alternatives do/did we have" and you often end up landing on implementing some mixture of leveraging public domain software and in-house customization atop/leveraging it to solve the problem you were paying for. In the end, you end up doing what you probably knew was the correct path anyways: this vendor solution is questionable, it doesnt completely align with our business needs, and it's not going to get the actual need done. Conveying that to business leaders is often impossible though. So, to pass liability/responsibility and cover your ass with incompetent business leadership, you throw often thousands, tens, or hundreds of thousands away.

I've had this discussion so many times and sat in these meetings so many times it grows tiring. The fact is, sometimes a generic solution works for your business (Office for example is a pretty generic need and often aligns), often it really doesn't (some arbitrary more niche/custom thing you do? Maybe, good luck).

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#243

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's perfectly ok to charge folks for software and if you're OSS project isn't motivating you like it used to, it's perfectly ok to charge users for support/updates/bugfixes.

I agree with the sentiment. But if anyone has ever contributed now you're in a bad place because you are making money off their work which they probably didn't consent to.

Only if you change the license and you don't need to do that to charge for support, etc.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#244
post #81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this and it makes sense that a minority of users sucks up a lot of time, but what isn't clear to me is why maintainers don't ignore these people. I've never maintained a popular open source project so maybe there's something about the situation I just don't understand. But it seems like: > Thank you for your feature request, we will add it to the backlog. The core team doesn't work on unfunded feature requests…

> but what isn't clear to me is why maintainers don't ignore these people. One reason is that you're being told that that's an awful thing to do by basically every resource on "proper open-source" you can find. Another is that these people are pretty good at starting shit storms trying to ruin your reputation if you don't comply with their unreasonable demands. It's also worth nothing that some requests/issues/questi…

>> but what isn't clear to me is why maintainers don't ignore these people.

>One reason is that you're being told that that's an awful thing to do by basically every resource on "proper open-source" you can find.

The solution is clear. Just apply the grandparent's advice recursively:

Ignore these "resources" (!) on "proper open-source", too.

Also, that term sounds awfully entitled to me, too.

Who the heck is anyone to decide what constitues 'proper' open source "resources"? Total nonsense.

Everyone can have their own opinion about that, or not even bother to have an opinion, and just do exactly and only what they want for their own open source project, ignoring the naysayers, free-but-unwanted advice-givers, and freeloaders.

I didn't know that we were living in a socialist heaven. Hot tip: We are not.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#245

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. If someone releases code then that's it. You have it. Do what you want with it (within it's licence). Be thankful. Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing more you ungrateful little git. If you add this code to your project, you should fix and share any problems you e…

I agree with your sentiment of "Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing" That works both ways though, a maintainer cannot expect users to not complain (so they have to develop management strategies where they ignore the noise, rather than try to engage/capitulate). A maintainer can also not lament when users do not feel the desire to contribu…

> That works both ways though, a maintainer cannot expect users to not complain (so they have to develop management strategies where they ignore the noise, rather than try to engage/capitulate). A maintainer can also not lament when users do not feel the desire to contribute monetarily.

The solution is quite simple really.

1) have your repo private and release only tarball files or have a read only repo with no pull/merge request functionnality 2) do not use an issue tracker

Basically, do not use a forge such as github/gitlab, at least not publicly. Problem solved.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#246
I have one major objection.

It's easy to forget, due to the vast wealth of genuinely great volunteer-driven projects out there, that an overwhelming share of open source contributions are actually funded by capital. It's hard to imagine the Linux kernel, or llvm, or even projects like React ever fizzling out due to maintainer burnout or disinterest.

This is fascinating, in my opinion, because our systems of accounting and economical analysis are by design terrible at keeping track of externalities. They are not good at analyzing the potentially holistic value of mutualist projects. Largely speaking whatever cannot fit on a balance sheet becomes the province of philosophy and culture.

Despite all that, in the modern culture of tech companies, the value of FLOSS seems to be understood and the companies that recognize it genuinely seem to out-compete those that don't. They recognize the value it creates for them, even if it's very difficult to estimate the costs that are avoided by using a FLOSS system that would otherwise need to be licensed or built. Even if the completely optional act of using one's own resources to contribute to open source software does not easily map to an equivalent or greater return in accounts receivable or company valuation.

What I mean by this is that the sustainability of "open source" broadly speaking is already demonstrated and I don't see that changing any time soon. What's not demonstrated however is the sustainability of OP's project. I think this is a challenge that they and their users should tackle without implicating the entirety of open source software as a culture, or attempting to impose any responsibilities upon users of open source software that don't already exist.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#248

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. If someone releases code then that's it. You have it. Do what you want with it (within it's licence). Be thankful. Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing more you ungrateful little git. If you add this code to your project, you should fix and share any problems you e…

A maintainer position for a software project is like any position or role, in say, a charity. You aren’t technically forced to do the work, but the charity announces publicly (on its web site, for instance) that the work will be done, and people expect it to be done. If you do not feel up to doing it anymore, you owe it to other people (who expect the work to be done) to announce your retirement and hand the position over to new people.

Any project which is not a going concern should:

A: Not, IMHO, be called a ”project”

B: Be clearly labelled, in its public-facing information, as being offered as-is, without any implied updates or future development.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#249
post #180

I think an open source compensation system could work similar to how artists are payed when their song is played on the radio. Radio stations in Sweden pay a fee to an organisation which distributes the money to artists in proportion to the amount of playtime. Imagine a new type of open source license that mandated paying a membership fee to a global foundation to use the code commercially. Non-commersial use would s…

Such a system has been proposed for copyrighted works in general. The general idea is that you change copyright law so that making copies does not require permission of the copyright holder, but you also put a tax on something that correlates somewhat with copying. The government would then distribute that tax money to copyright owners in some manner dependent on how much their work was copied. Even Stallman has sugg…

Yes I think it needs to be centralized and aggregated.

I am sure many companies realize that they gain value from open source. Thus they are willing to pay something. However they do not want to handle transactions with every transitive dependency they use. Just like a radio station doesnt want a contract with every artist. This is why isolated commersial licenses wouldnt work for anything but the very largest projecys.

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