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Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

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31–40 of 94 posts

Re: Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

#31
post #16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be a bad thing if people learned from the previous iteration. But they don't. In fact, what they generally do is layer an implementation of the stuff they forgot last time on top of the preceding iteration which lacked it. So now, we have clusters of Linux boxes, built with a ton of new tooling on top of Linux because Linux is a UNIX and traditional UNIX doesn't have networking or clustering in the design…

What I don't get about all of this is why one of the big players don't invest heavily in Plan9/Inferno and promoting it. Surely having the networking and clustering code baked in to the OS makes the whole thing both easier and more efficient to run which would mean they'd be able to offer a product that significantly undercut their rivals in terms of price as well as allowing the companies using it to reduce their De…

J2ME, SavageSE, microEJ and Android, are basically Inferno, at least in part, and not on general purpose computing.

Inferno was actually originally started to fight against Sun's ideas regarding Java, hence why alongside Limbo, there was also Java support eventually.

Re: Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

#32
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And some will never leave cloud.

That is where you run the cost calculations and decide if it is worth it or not. At the very first it can make zero sense to run in cloud. Then slightly in it becomes very worth it. Then later on that cost overhang becomes so big you are better off building your own. Where those boundaries are depends on your business.

I think the opposite, at the start it's a no-brainer. Setting up cloud infra for a simple website or web api is so so simple, and between free tiers and startup credits, costs $0.

Re: Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

#33
post #2

So.. we’re back to self-hosting your own services? And IT does another cycle.

> So.. we’re back to self-hosting your own services?

It never stopped: plenty of places have on-site VMware and Hyper-V, both of which provide (IIRC) APIs to automated VM creation. If you're more open source, there's OpenStack (which VMware has a API-compat layer for).

Re: Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

#35

At home I have a small server farm of cheap Ryzen PCs. Mostly continuous integration and testing for open source projects, but also some LLM. If I have some idea, I just throw it into farm and see results a few days later. It is slower than renting in cloud, bit about 4x cheaper. It also heats my house a bit in winter...

You must have cheap electricity where you live...

Re: Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

#36
post #16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be a bad thing if people learned from the previous iteration. But they don't. In fact, what they generally do is layer an implementation of the stuff they forgot last time on top of the preceding iteration which lacked it. So now, we have clusters of Linux boxes, built with a ton of new tooling on top of Linux because Linux is a UNIX and traditional UNIX doesn't have networking or clustering in the design…

What I don't get about all of this is why one of the big players don't invest heavily in Plan9/Inferno and promoting it. Surely having the networking and clustering code baked in to the OS makes the whole thing both easier and more efficient to run which would mean they'd be able to offer a product that significantly undercut their rivals in terms of price as well as allowing the companies using it to reduce their De…

When companies are up against that much inertia, they push the boulder towards the nearest local minimum, not a currently known "best" global minimum. Why redo everything for Plan9 and train engineers on a new OS paradigm when you can write Kubernetes at a lower LoE? IMO of course, I'm not an expert.

Re: Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

#37
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And IT does another cycle. People keep saying that as if it was a bad thing

It wouldn't be a bad thing if people learned from the previous iteration. But they don't. In fact, what they generally do is layer an implementation of the stuff they forgot last time on top of the preceding iteration which lacked it. So now, we have clusters of Linux boxes, built with a ton of new tooling on top of Linux because Linux is a UNIX and traditional UNIX doesn't have networking or clustering in the design…

> Go on, then, 2 PCs on a LAN, both running a bare Linux kernel and a shell for init. Call them box1 and box2. Tell me how you mount the filesystem of box2 in a folder on box1.

Running /bin/sh on a bare kernel isn't a unix system. A unix system has daemons, at which point we get enough supporting tooling to make use of the very much built into the kernel NFS and 9P support and mounting files from one machine to another becomes easy.

Re: Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

#38
post #9

This was my take, FWIW. https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/16/canonical_microcloud/

Mmm. So is MicroCloud essentially a glue between LXD + Ceph? It's not really clear what the problem MicroCloud is trying to solve, though. Considering that LXD already supports multi-node clustering, why does anyone want another cluster manager on top of LXD?

Paraphrased, they are saying LXD is more suited to running VMs or containers and not specifically microservices. It's missing sophisticated cross-container networking, centralized storage management, etc.

So they are pitching a "simpler than K8S, more complicated than LXD" layer on top of LXD for that purpose.

I suppose it also would compete with Proxmox, which is a somewhat different space than K8S. But other things it adds, like the web ui, RBAC, etc...put it in that space also.

Re: Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

#39
post #5

> snap > Ubuntu Pro > driving […] subscription Think I’ll stick LXC on proxmox

Good choice. FreeBSD and jailed bHyve cells for me.

It's been a few years since I've looked at bhyve. Is it maturing well? Are there any tools that make managing it easier now?

Re: Canonical Launches MicroCloud to Deploy Your Own "Fully Functional Cloud"

#40
post #9

This was my take, FWIW. https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/16/canonical_microcloud/

Mmm. So is MicroCloud essentially a glue between LXD + Ceph? It's not really clear what the problem MicroCloud is trying to solve, though. Considering that LXD already supports multi-node clustering, why does anyone want another cluster manager on top of LXD?

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