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The night train revolution has been hailed as an alternative to airplanes

cnn.com

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Re: The night train revolution has been hailed as an alternative to airplanes

#11

Post by htlion »

baz00 wrote: post #6

It's not. It's expensive, noisy, takes a long time (6h door to door) and is uncomfortable as fuck. I recently had to go to Edinburgh. It was £235 standard class to get a train that takes several hours. Or £80 to get a plane that takes 2h door to door (1h in the air). If I want to go anywhere in Europe it's quicker, easier and almost always cheaper to fly. Even on a bad Lufthansa flight where everything goes wrong :)…

You must be having noisy nights at home to enjoy 2 hours door to door travel by plane. The state of the train network is terrible so it should be used as a bad example. Trains are longer but for most people they are more comfortable physically and mentally : more space for your legs, your luggage and less hassle going to the station and passing controls. Night trains are not perfect, but with earplugs they can be pleasant.

Re: The night train revolution has been hailed as an alternative to airplanes

#12

Post by baz00 »

wkat4242 wrote: post #10
baz00 wrote: post #6

It's not. It's expensive, noisy, takes a long time (6h door to door) and is uncomfortable as fuck. I recently had to go to Edinburgh. It was £235 standard class to get a train that takes several hours. Or £80 to get a plane that takes 2h door to door (1h in the air). If I want to go anywhere in Europe it's quicker, easier and almost always cheaper to fly. Even on a bad Lufthansa flight where everything goes wrong :)…

Yeah I'm all for fighting climate change but air travel should be excepted until there's battery-powered options available. We can't go back to the dark ages of travel. And especially internationally in Europe the rail network is shit and has way too little capacity. There's almost no good international high speed rail. It's only in countries that invested in it locally like Germany, France and Spain.

Completely agree with this.

Anyway shifting all our trips to train travel is not the answer. The answer, which I do prefer, is not travelling at all when avoidable. I only ever travel for holidays and funerals. Never on business. All business can be conducted on conference calls.

Re: The night train revolution has been hailed as an alternative to airplanes

#13

Post by Beijinger »

xwdv wrote: post #4

In Europe these night trains are useless IMO. Air travel within Europe is cheap and easy, night trains are far more expensive, slow and run unreliable schedules sometimes, and they often don’t even take you to places you want to go. In America though, night trains would be awesome, since air travel is expensive, hellish, and the country is built in a way that the destinations most people will want to go to are alread…

"Air travel within Europe is cheap and easy"

1. This can change due to political reasons. E.g. "As part of far-reaching 2021 climate legislation, France proposed banning domestic flights where equivalent journeys taking less than two-and-a-half hours on its excellent and wide-ranging rail network are available."

2. Yes, you all know the USD 10 airfaires from Ryanair. But often destinations are very limited and often it is 3rd tier airports. Good luck getting there.

I welcome night trains. They were always cheap, good an convenient in China and Eastern Europe (legendary Prague -> Budapest -> Bucharest line e.g.). I hope this might get more convenient in Western Europe in the future. And why not add a nice bar and coffee place and internet when you are on it. Board at 8, have a few drinks, get up at 7, have a coffee, work and get off at 10am.

Re: The night train revolution has been hailed as an alternative to airplanes

#15

Post by maweki »

Not a night train, but this summer we went on vacation to Scotland from Germany and took the Amsterdam-Newcastle overnight ferry instead of flying.

One major issue is one of headspace, as you sacrifice a day of holiday for a day of travel. You have to feel on holiday right as you enter the train. If you're getting antsy for every hour not spend at your destination, you will never be happy with anything but flying. But we had a wonderful time on the ferry and waiting for our connecting trains, we had a nice time in both Newcastle and Amsterdam.

With a toddler in tow, the freedom of movement and the space in a train or on a ferry beats air travel or car travel almost every time.

For next year we plan on spending even more time "travelling". Adding one or two additional overnight stops between rail connections is fine with us. It's fewer days at the destination and it's a bit more expensive with the multi-leg train journeys. But as the travel is not very stressful that way, it comes out about even.

Re: The night train revolution has been hailed as an alternative to airplanes

#16

Post by josephcsible »

xwdv wrote: post #4

In Europe these night trains are useless IMO. Air travel within Europe is cheap and easy, night trains are far more expensive, slow and run unreliable schedules sometimes, and they often don’t even take you to places you want to go. In America though, night trains would be awesome, since air travel is expensive, hellish, and the country is built in a way that the destinations most people will want to go to are alread…

> Air travel within Europe is cheap and easy, night trains are far more expensive, slow and run unreliable schedules sometimes, and they often don’t even take you to places you want to go.

And of course their solution to this isn't to try to improve the trains. It's to ban flying between anywhere that trains exist! In case it isn't clear, this isn't a hypothetical: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36046764

Re: The night train revolution has been hailed as an alternative to airplanes

#17

Post by dboreham »

traceroute66 wrote: post #9
jmclnx wrote: post #5

>At least that’s the theory – and why the new wave of night trains are being touted as one way to replace short or even medium-haul flights across Europe and the US. I am sure in the US it is and will always be talk. Train service in the US is terrible compared to what is in the EU. It will never happen. Maybe this will work in Boston where the subways run a 3 MPH (~5kph) due to ignored repairs over the past 30/40 ye…

> Train service in the US is terrible compared to what is in the EU. And train service in the EU is terrible compared to Japan. If EU/US trains ran like Japanese Shinkanzen then there would be exactly zero need for night trains. You would board a clean train, that departed on-time, and whisked you along the countryside, reaching your destination hundreds of miles/kilometers away in 3–4 hours. Before the pedants arriv…

There are also really early in the morning trains in Japan, so you can get to Nagoya or wherever before 9am.

Re: The night train revolution has been hailed as an alternative to airplanes

#18

Post by gorgoiler »

You can also hear OBB’s Kurt Bauer on this episode of The Bottom Line from a few weeks ago:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001ryt1

Capacity is ultimately much harder to expand on 1D trains compared to 3D airspace. Economic pressure also means the removal of what is, for many people, the most romantic part of the whole experience: the dining car. The economics seem to be this is basically always going to be about first class travel, at least if you want a bed, which is a shame.

Listening to this program made me really want to experience it again. The last time I took night trains was when I was backpacking around China in the 90s where there was very much a culture of first class travel (closed cabins, duvets, two-double or one-double bunks) but also a very accessibly priced second tier of carriages with open cabins and a pair of triple bunks. I loved every moment of it.

Re: The night train revolution has been hailed as an alternative to airplanes

#19

Post by traceroute66 »

baz00 wrote: post #6

It's not. It's expensive, noisy, takes a long time (6h door to door) and is uncomfortable as fuck. I recently had to go to Edinburgh. It was £235 standard class to get a train that takes several hours. Or £80 to get a plane that takes 2h door to door (1h in the air). If I want to go anywhere in Europe it's quicker, easier and almost always cheaper to fly. Even on a bad Lufthansa flight where everything goes wrong :)…

> I recently had to go to Edinburgh. It was £235 standard class to get a train that takes several hours.

UK rail is truly depressing.

In Japan you can take a Shinkanzen from Tokyo to Hokkaido, 4.5 hours, 800km (appx 500 miiles) for 20,000 Yen (£108) first class or 11,000 Yen (£60) standard class. And that is walk-up fare for "right now", you can use an app to get advanced fares.

And I can assure you those 4.5 hours will be insanely comfortable compared to the UK. And you can pick up some very tasty food at the station, unlike the UK where you can only buy garbage.

In the UK I agree, I'd fly from London to Edinburgh in preference to the ghastly train. Assuming the London train even leaves the station and is not delayed or cancelled, as usual.

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