Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

bits.blogs.nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–106 of 106 posts

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#101

Post by nirvana »

AlisdairO wrote: post #93
ktizo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are why Hacker News is in decline and why anyone who is capable of argument-- such as myself-- is hesitant to post here I'd hate to see what happens when you aren't being hesitant.

You're talking to someone who was convinced Apple was the sole inventor of multi-touch, abused everyone who claimed otherwise, and then disappeared when definitive counter-proof was provided, without apologising. He's an arrogant fanboy (not a term I use lightly), and he's not worth arguing with.

Your comment is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You made six claims, all of which are false, and none of which you provide any evidence of. To best of my recollection, this "counter-proof" was the movie 2001: A Space Odessey.

Your comment is pure insult, and much worse, you tell flat out lies about me.

I'm sorry that you wish to believe the fiction that Apple didn't invent multi-touch, or that a movie counts as prior art.

But you impeach yourself, when you, and others, run around this site telling such lies about people. Its nothing more than personal attack, and you are in fact engaging in the very abuse you accuse me of. By the way, my "abuse" was describing the details of the technology in question.

I am always able to defend my positions with logic, facts and argumentation. The problem is, so rarely do I get counter arguments, that such defenses are not often necessary. (notice all of the responses to my posts here are characterizing me, rather than addressing my arguments, for example.)

Instead, you guys get into such a blinding rage at the fact that I might dare point out these facts that you have no other ability to respond than to attack me personally.

No response from me, should be necessary, but Hacker News is overrun with this kind of partisanship to the point where you feel comfortable saying something that, quite frankly, should get you hellbanned.

> "You're talking to someone who was convinced Apple was the sole inventor of multi-touch, abused everyone who claimed otherwise, and then disappeared when definitive counter-proof was provided, without apologising. He's an arrogant fanboy (not a term I use lightly), and he's not worth arguing with."

Ah, I see from looking at your comment history, you're attacking me for political and ideological reasons. You're attempting to intimidate me into silence by engaging in ad hominem. Exactly as I indicated was going on on HN.

Thank you for providing such a nice example.

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#102

Post by nirvana »

untog wrote: post #66
nirvana wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Please, they're a electronics designer. They contract with whoever bids lowest, and always have." Do you have a cite for your claim that Apple has never been holding their producers up to a standard of quality, and has been entering into contracts on the SOLE basis of price? Of course you don't, as this is just an ideological statement, already refuted by my pointing out their history of audits and high requiremen…

Do you have a cite for your claim that Apple has never been holding their producers up to a standard of quality There is a concept called "burden of proof". If you are claiming something without evidence (which you did), the responsibility is on you to provide evidence that you are right, not on him to prove that you are not. I'm certain that it is-- ironically-- Apple's decades of integrity that is the very reason y…

>"If you are claiming something without evidence (which you did)"

False.

>"the responsibility is on you to provide evidence that you are right, not on him to prove that you are not."

False, and False. He made a claim, it is his responsibility to provide evidence. I already provided evidence for my claim.

By the way, absolutely every time someone has said "cite needed", in my experience, they are simply ignoring the evidence presented (as in this case) or will ignore it when presented.

This is the tactic of those who cannot make an argument. Since they cannot make an argument they demand a citation and then go on to make a lot of unsupported claims.

>"he simply questioned their actions"

This is an obvious lie. He made obviously false claims about Apple in a snide and disparaging way. Further, these claims came in response to an article where I'd already cited facts refuting them.

>"is to label him as irrational and full of hatred. "Doth protest too much" and all that."

Another flat out lie. But of course, you had to tell that lie so you could call me names.

You, and his, complete inability to argue the point, and your reliance on name calling shows a severe lack of integrity.. and is why HN is not a place where discussion is tolerated on certain topics.

If you dare to defend Apple, you will be called names by Apple haters. (if you don't like the term Apple haters, find a better one, and I'll use it.)

By the way, now that you bring it up, yes, its true, I do think that resorting to personal attack as you have is irrational and a result of hatred.

I would much rather you just responded to my points, with arguments, rather than dishonesty.

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#103

Post by nirvana »

ktizo wrote: post #60
nirvana wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Please, they're a electronics designer. They contract with whoever bids lowest, and always have." Do you have a cite for your claim that Apple has never been holding their producers up to a standard of quality, and has been entering into contracts on the SOLE basis of price? Of course you don't, as this is just an ideological statement, already refuted by my pointing out their history of audits and high requiremen…

You are why Hacker News is in decline and why anyone who is capable of argument-- such as myself-- is hesitant to post here I'd hate to see what happens when you aren't being hesitant.

>>You are why Hacker News is in decline and why anyone who is capable of argument-- such as myself-- is hesitant to post here >I'd hate to see what happens when you aren't being hesitant.

Thank you for a perfect example of the kind of content free, snotty, irrational response I was talking about.

For some reason, those who up voted you, and down voted the comment you were replying to (which, by the way, contains several arguments, none of which has anyone addressed) think that this kind of integrity free voting lets you off the hook for ruining this site. It doesn't.

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#104

Post by ktizo »

nirvana wrote: post #101
AlisdairO wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking to someone who was convinced Apple was the sole inventor of multi-touch, abused everyone who claimed otherwise, and then disappeared when definitive counter-proof was provided, without apologising. He's an arrogant fanboy (not a term I use lightly), and he's not worth arguing with.

Your comment is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You made six claims, all of which are false, and none of which you provide any evidence of. To best of my recollection, this "counter-proof" was the movie 2001: A Space Odessey. Your comment is pure insult, and much worse, you tell flat out lies about me. I'm sorry that you wish to believe the fiction that Apple didn't invent multi-touch, or that a movie co…

Was Nimish Mehta's Flexible Machine Interface in 1982 while at University of Toronto, as far as I can make out.

Here's the reference, and his linkedin page if you want to ask him to check.

http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html

http://www.linkedin.com/in/nimishm

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#105

Post by ktizo »

nirvana wrote: post #103
ktizo wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are why Hacker News is in decline and why anyone who is capable of argument-- such as myself-- is hesitant to post here I'd hate to see what happens when you aren't being hesitant.

>>You are why Hacker News is in decline and why anyone who is capable of argument-- such as myself-- is hesitant to post here >I'd hate to see what happens when you aren't being hesitant. Thank you for a perfect example of the kind of content free, snotty, irrational response I was talking about. For some reason, those who up voted you, and down voted the comment you were replying to (which, by the way, contains seve…

Come off it, you started out by smearing all potential critics with accusations about their integrity, before then going on to claim that Apple taught the Chinese the concept of ethics, all within your first post.

What kind of response would you expect from that? A cake and a paper hat?

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#106

Post by AlisdairO »

nirvana wrote: post #101
AlisdairO wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking to someone who was convinced Apple was the sole inventor of multi-touch, abused everyone who claimed otherwise, and then disappeared when definitive counter-proof was provided, without apologising. He's an arrogant fanboy (not a term I use lightly), and he's not worth arguing with.

Your comment is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You made six claims, all of which are false, and none of which you provide any evidence of. To best of my recollection, this "counter-proof" was the movie 2001: A Space Odessey. Your comment is pure insult, and much worse, you tell flat out lies about me. I'm sorry that you wish to believe the fiction that Apple didn't invent multi-touch, or that a movie co…

That's impressively wrong, well done.

Here, I looked up the relevant portion of the comment thread for you: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3262469 . You supported your claims about Apple inventing multi-touch with a claim that Apple had trademarked a specific definition of multi-touch - thus allowing you to dismiss out of hand people citing earlier screens that supported multiple touches. You accused at least one of these people of lying. I showed you that you were wrong, that the trademark application you cited had been denied because the term is generic. Hence, other people's examples of multi-touch interfaces were perfectly valid.

Another user cited a cofounder of Fingerworks stating that multi-touch was not a single innovation: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3263335 .

I'm not really sure what 'political and ideological reasons' you think I have - I have no idea of your political history, and have only noticed your posts related to Apple. I am a happy user of several Apple products and, on the whole, admire them as a company despite certain faults. I'm just not a rabid fanboy.

> The problem is, so rarely do I get counter arguments, that such defenses are not often necessary.

Funny how you stopped arguing at the exact moment your position became indefensible, and were so keen to do so before then. I'm honestly finding it hard to work out if you're trolling me or not.

Post reply on HN