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Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

sethgodin.typepad.com

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Re: Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

#11

Post by nazgulnarsil »

smanek wrote: post #3
alexandros wrote: post #2

Sometimes you have to go against the grain though. After all, evolution is true, and marketing it as 'this is a great way to supplement your creationism' (which Darwin actually did) may not exactly go over well or be the most honest approach.

We don't know evolution is true. The most you can say is that evolution is the best explanation we have for the data collected so far. There have been pretty major revisions to the evolution since Darwin's time, and I think it still needs a lot of work to explain some of its fuzzier points ('chemical evolution', cambrian explosion, etc). It's entirely possible that a new explanation (i.e., not evolution) could better…

... "this is the best explanation for the data" is the most you can ever say about anything at any time. ever.

Re: Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

#12

Post by mamama »

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. e.g. General relativity has a lot of mathematics backing it up.

Law: a scientific generalization based on empirical observations of physical behavior. e.g F = ma. We don't know why it's true, it just is some sort of an axiom.

Re: Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

#13

Post by mixmax »

Seth should pick his examples more carefully, he obviously doesn't know anything about science.

-----------

Seth: They say he discovered gravity. Nonsense. He just named it.

Fact: He didn't discover gravity, and has never been accredited for doing so. The famous story of Gallileo dropping balls from the tower of Pisa to measure gravity happened in the 17'th century, so obviously the idea of gravity was around for a while before Newton. What he did do, however, was to publish the Principia Mathematica in 1687 that gives an in-depth explanation of gravity, including the famous inverse square law. In the book he theorised his three laws of motion, invented calculus and basically lay the whoole foundation for classical mechanics. This is what we remember him for, not for having named gravity.

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Seth: Everyone 'believes' in gravity. And yet, we know virtually nothing about it

fact: Seth should read up on his physics, starting with Einstein.

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seth: There are very few people doing serious gravity research

Fact: One of the major goals of modern physics is a theory of everything where the four natural forces (weak force, strong force, electromagnetic force and gravity) are combined into one. Gravity has always been the odd one out and hard to explain, thus spawning massive research into gravity. One of the reasone the LHC, the most expensive physical experiment to date, was conceived was to learn more about gravity. Oh, and there's this guy called Einstein that apparently did some work in this area too.

-----------

Seth: There are evolution skeptics who would prefer a different story, but no gravity skeptics, even though there's a lot less science there.

Fact: Religion always tries to put down science that reaches contradictory conclusions than scripture, and gravity is no exception since it implies that the earth is not at the center of the universe. Seth doesn't seem to get this though, since the battle was lost by the church long ago. Take Gallileo who was on trial on the suspicion of heresy in 1633 because of his theories of gravity. If found guilty he would have paid with his life. The laws of gravity were much more opposed by the church than evolution is today.

Re: Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

#15

Post by maximilian »

danhak wrote: post #4

It always irks me a bit when science is pushed out of its comfort zone to make some non-scientific point. Subtlety is lost, misconception introduced. And language like "just a theory" suggests that scientific theory is much less rigorous than it actually is.

Exactly. A theory has been vetted by both experimentalists and theorists multiple times until they are all so convinced a hypothesis works that it moves into theory land. In the vernacular, a theory is just an idea, which isn't the way its used in science.

Re: Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

#16

Post by PStamatiou »

I might be going on a limb here but do we really need to have every single Seth Godin post on Hacker News? Every few days there's a new one that somehow reaches the top, doesn't offer much value and even has significant issues (like this one).. I didn't really think this comment through but I know I have become slightly annoyed with his posts flooding HN as of late.

Re: Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

#17

Post by llimllib »

PStamatiou wrote: post #16

I might be going on a limb here but do we really need to have every single Seth Godin post on Hacker News? Every few days there's a new one that somehow reaches the top, doesn't offer much value and even has significant issues (like this one).. I didn't really think this comment through but I know I have become slightly annoyed with his posts flooding HN as of late.

I thought it was posted so we could make fun of his scientific ignorance? Did the poster really think this was a good metaphor?

(I'm not saying the marketing advice he gives is bad. In fact, I couldn't even get past his nonsense at the top of the article)

Re: Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

#18

Post by mynameishere »

mixmax wrote: post #13

Seth should pick his examples more carefully, he obviously doesn't know anything about science. ----------- Seth: They say he discovered gravity. Nonsense. He just named it. Fact: He didn't discover gravity, and has never been accredited for doing so. The famous story of Gallileo dropping balls from the tower of Pisa to measure gravity happened in the 17'th century, so obviously the idea of gravity was around for a w…

Fact: Religion always tries to put down science that reaches contradictory conclusions than scripture

Fact: Not "always". For the most part, religious people are oblivious to science, and only highly visible matters like heliocentricity (gravity, less so) become contentious. It's clear that he's making an imperfect metaphor and the details aren't especially important.

That is, are you marketing evolution? Even the smart lads believe in evolution because it's fashionable, like the iphone, and not because they followed through all the relevant citations. Rather, merely quoting the full title of "On the origin of species" is enough to put fair weather Darwinists in a tizzy--and the atheists are right in there with the Pope, depending on how you advertise the inquisition. It's a marketing problem and has a marketing solution.

Re: Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

#19

Post by mixmax »

mynameishere wrote: post #18
mixmax wrote: post #13

Seth should pick his examples more carefully, he obviously doesn't know anything about science. ----------- Seth: They say he discovered gravity. Nonsense. He just named it. Fact: He didn't discover gravity, and has never been accredited for doing so. The famous story of Gallileo dropping balls from the tower of Pisa to measure gravity happened in the 17'th century, so obviously the idea of gravity was around for a w…

Fact: Religion always tries to put down science that reaches contradictory conclusions than scripture Fact: Not "always". For the most part, religious people are oblivious to science, and only highly visible matters like heliocentricity (gravity, less so) become contentious. It's clear that he's making an imperfect metaphor and the details aren't especially important. That is, are you marketing evolution? Even the sm…

I'm not disagreeing with his central thesis, I'm just saying that it is undermined tremendously by his bad examples.

And since he is in marketing he should know better.

Re: Seth's Blog: Gravity is just a theory

#20

Post by raheemm »

Seth's analogies of gravity and evolution may not be accurate, but his point stands that the theory of gravity is less controversial than the theory of evolution. Its also interesting how he illustrates the power of a story as a marketing device. It is one of the many factors in the the success of evolution vs. gravity.

He goes a step further and provides insights into the kinds of stories that sell (or dont) - long stories and stories that go against the conventional wisdom are harder to communicate.

Obviously, if you have a super-spectacular product like google search or iphone (add in your fav product), you dont need to tell a silly story. But for most folks who are in the business of creating/delivering mundane products/services or who dont have a huge marketing budget, its nice to gain an advantage. I think this is one of the reasons for the success of the Balsalmiq guy - he has a nice product but his story of a totally transparent one-person ISV going it alone is really compelling.

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