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De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

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Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#281

Post by dontlaugh »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #104
zbrozek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got my first mac through work this year and I hate the UI. It's very nice that it doesn't come with as much bloat (but it does still come it, e.g., Apple news, music, etc). I absolutely hate the window management. Inconsistent behavior on double click of the title bar (Chrome maximizes and Slack doesn't) is annoying. Lack of snapping and tiling (a la super-arrow) drives me nuts. That command-tab will switch me to a…

> And I also hate the nonstandard keyboard layout and shortcuts. I think you may grow to like them, especially if you routinely type in languages other than your layout. For example, I use a physical QWERTY layout, but often type in French (the latter is an abomination for programming and similar). I can very easily use dead keys to create the accents. I type as quickly in French on a Mac QWERTY as I used to on a reg…

I feel the same.

I like the macOS keyboard handling so much I even swap Control and Meta on Windows machines. Not the same, but a bit less annoying.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#282

Post by microtonal »

fsflover wrote: post #231
episteme wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard, impractical, incredibly slow and high chance of failure. Sounds like maybe installing an EU version is reasonable in comparison.

All your adjectives apply to installing an EU version in the long term .

This. They don't want to get off the gravy train. So as long as it's not regulated, they'll try to infer your locale and enable features based on that. And since this is the OS, they can use WiFi AP MAC addresses, nearby Bluetooth devices' addresses, etc. to infer your location. After all, this world brought you

https://keith.github.io/xcode-man-pages/countryd.8.html

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#283

Post by pavlov »

hurril wrote: post #274
heavyset_go wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what the OP described as happening on their new Windows install: > I remember the first time I used a Windows system last year after tens of years on Linux/OSX, and it was really a somewhat strange experience: the moment I connected the ethernet cable I was instantly looking at random flashy news articles from another part of the world. Not in the browser, not in some kind of "News" app, but right in my taskba…

macOS does not have a task bar and that paragraph specifically says that the flashing items did not even show in a news app. The criticism of Apple here says that they have a news app and that it shows news. It is not the same thing and it won't be the same thing no matter how many times you say it. It simply isn't!

The iPhone home screen performs the same function as the Windows Start menu.

A news widget on one is the same as a news widget on the other.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#284

Post by PoignardAzur »

magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

> How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU?

Because lobbying isn't equivalent to corruption and doesn't automatically get you the laws you want.

The European Commission had a three months comment period in 2020 where various interest groups (FAANGs, non-profits, media groups, open-source giants like Mozilla, etc) all submitted their position (which IIRC usually boiled down to "yeah, regulating is awesome, please regulate everyone but me!"). It submitted its report in December 2020, at which point most of the key points were already decided.

No doubt interest groups sent a lot of people to lobbies in the following years to discuss details and push in one direction or another, but by then the commission and parliament had a pretty good idea what they wanted the final law to look like anyway.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#285

Post by dontlaugh »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #205
williamcotton wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closing a window has never closed a Mac application. Like, since the first Macs. Applications can have multiple windows so it makes sense from a UX perspective to not terminate an application when a window closes, even if it is the last window. This behavior can easily be overridden by application developers but they choose not to go against expected behavior. Power users press Command + Q to quit an application. I'v…

It makes zero sense from a UX perspective to not terminate (most) processes when the last window closes. Exceptions do exist, but for example if I close all my word processor windows then the process does no good continuing to run. I think you make a fair point that Mac users are used to this behavior and so it should probably remain consistent. But if you were to redesign the OS from the ground up, it's horrible beh…

It's not horrible at all.

You might close all windows, but still have a background task running. That's nicely represented by the app remaining on, which can ask about interrupting the background task if you try to close it. It removes the need for most systray usage.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#286

Post by fsflover »

lynx23 wrote: post #244
pavlov wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the system carefully opened it for me to delight me with some low-quality not-even-local news" To be fair, Apple does this exact same thing on their operating system. On a freshly installed iPhone, swipe right at the home screen. It takes you to the widget screen which is loaded by default with Apple News showing random junk. Microsoft deserves the flak for turning Windows 11 into a billboard, but Apple isn't immu…

This is only true if you are in a country which is supported by Apple News. Mine isn't.

But it does indicate that Apple is following the same path.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#287

Post by blackoil »

soraminazuki wrote: post #184
glimshe wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take this refreshing shower at night, when I close my Mac work computer and go use my Windows personal computer. Everything is easy to accomplish, my personal use software just works and I don't have to struggle with extra clicks and movements for everything. It's incredible how different people are - and that's a good thing.

People are free to have their own opinions. But some things aren't matters of options, but hard cold facts. Windows, especially after Windows 10, has been actively hostile and repeatedly ignores the clear will of its users. At boot time, it regularly takes the computer hostage in an attempt to coerce me to mass-enable its many spywares. After disabling then one by one, I can login to my desktop only to find that it h…

> People are free to have their own opinions. But some things aren't matters of options, but hard cold facts.

I feel same way about Mac users. Can't understand how people accept that turd of OS that comes with poor defaults (Window Management/Finder/keyboard), weaker customization and tonnes of bloat (Music/Notes/Messages/Mail/...) and then they pay a premium for it.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#288

Post by BSDobelix »

Running Win10-IoT/Enterprise or even Win11-Enterprise is such a refreshing experience compared to the "consumer"-editions.

Why is microsoft making it so hard to buy enterprise editions as a private person?

I would happily pay 5$ a month...well no i dont, but IF i had to use windows i would.

BTW, two nice apps to cleanup and shutup your windows (deinstall everything you want):

-O&O ShutUp10++

-O&O AppBuster

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#289

Post by soraminazuki »

blackoil wrote: post #287
soraminazuki wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are free to have their own opinions. But some things aren't matters of options, but hard cold facts. Windows, especially after Windows 10, has been actively hostile and repeatedly ignores the clear will of its users. At boot time, it regularly takes the computer hostage in an attempt to coerce me to mass-enable its many spywares. After disabling then one by one, I can login to my desktop only to find that it h…

> People are free to have their own opinions. But some things aren't matters of options, but hard cold facts. I feel same way about Mac users. Can't understand how people accept that turd of OS that comes with poor defaults (Window Management/Finder/keyboard), weaker customization and tonnes of bloat (Music/Notes/Messages/Mail/...) and then they pay a premium for it.

That's literally your opinion about features. And a possibly outdated one too, because current model keyboards are fine.

Also the fact that you chose window management as a major problem on Macs tells me that you have a strong dislike for things that's unfamiliar to you. There are some annoyances with Macs, especially if you're a dev, but window management isn't one of them. Macs have the best touchpad gestures and virtual desktop management UX. GNOME comes close these days, but Macs still feel a bit smoother.

As for your problem with "bloat," most of those are just stock utility apps. Any major desktop OS have had those since ages. You do have a point with Apple Music, but Notes, Messages, and Mail? Are you serious?

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#290

Post by SushiHippie »

octacat wrote: post #275

oh yea, can we also patch Apple? This "Your icloud storage is low" and "Buy space" warnings are annoying. And you cannot do anything about them. Oh, Apple products have such an amazing usability (they are not, apparently, in 2023, if they think advertising their cloud bundle is ok).

I can't count on one hand how many times I've pressed reject on the Apple Care advertisement in the System Settings on a MacBook Pro. It always had a message something along the lines of "You'll never be able to get this deal again..." a few days later it always popped up again.
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