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De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

arstechnica.com

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Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#271

Post by heavyset_go »

hurril wrote: post #267
heavyset_go wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By default, Apple loads up the news widget in the macOS notification area. Clicking on a story opens it in the Apple News app, which is also in your dock by default.

Do you want me to understand a news app or widget as the same thing as unwarranted ads in the start menu?

Here's what the OP described as happening on their new Windows install:

> I remember the first time I used a Windows system last year after tens of years on Linux/OSX, and it was really a somewhat strange experience: the moment I connected the ethernet cable I was instantly looking at random flashy news articles from another part of the world. Not in the browser, not in some kind of "News" app, but right in my taskbar! The most amazing part is that I did not even have to click on it – the system carefully opened it for me to delight me with some low-quality not-even-local news.

Same thing happens on new macOS installs.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#272

Post by hurril »

surgical_fire wrote: post #261
hurril wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it does come with Apple Music (and whatever Apple News it - perhaps I've missed it?) And they do nag about using Apple Music a lot. I dislike that they do this and Apple can be criticised for a million different things. 1) this is not it; 2) this is not what Microsoft is doing. It has filled the Dock with (all) Apple apps the last 15+ years. I don't quite understand why you're comparing a desktop OS to the phone…

It absolutely is the same thing Microsoft does, just with different branding. In fact, Apple was doing it before MS. If anything, MS is just copying Apple there. The only difference is that they have been doing it for 15+ years and during this time they convinced you that it is okay that they do it on a pocket computer, as if it was somehow magically different.

Then we don't understand the phrase "the same thing" the same way.

An Apple box comes with Apple software and services. It does not come with third party apps preinstalled and it does not show me ads. The one exception that I can think of is in the App Store and in their TV offer, but this is not what you are talking about.

I disagree with a thousand things that Apple does but this comparison is disingenuous.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#273

Post by lemper »

magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

> how come?

eu seem to care about its citizens it seems. so, it might be dumbfounding for citizens of nations with government who give zero fucks about its own citizens.

> lobbying

in other countries, it is called bribery. most of the time, it's illegal.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#274

Post by hurril »

heavyset_go wrote: post #271
hurril wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want me to understand a news app or widget as the same thing as unwarranted ads in the start menu?

Here's what the OP described as happening on their new Windows install: > I remember the first time I used a Windows system last year after tens of years on Linux/OSX, and it was really a somewhat strange experience: the moment I connected the ethernet cable I was instantly looking at random flashy news articles from another part of the world. Not in the browser, not in some kind of "News" app, but right in my taskba…

macOS does not have a task bar and that paragraph specifically says that the flashing items did not even show in a news app. The criticism of Apple here says that they have a news app and that it shows news.

It is not the same thing and it won't be the same thing no matter how many times you say it. It simply isn't!

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#275

Post by octacat »

oh yea, can we also patch Apple? This "Your icloud storage is low" and "Buy space" warnings are annoying. And you cannot do anything about them.

Oh, Apple products have such an amazing usability (they are not, apparently, in 2023, if they think advertising their cloud bundle is ok).

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#276

Post by magicalhippo »

cookiengineer wrote: post #178

Pro Hint: due to licensing issues and EU regulations, "Windows Pro Education N" is pretty much the most bloatware free version, as it's also compliant with HIPAA. - No media codecs - No AI recording/transcription features due to missing media codecs - No cortana - No Teams upselling, no Office upselling, no Skype - No self installing games

We had issues at work because Support guys had installed the N version in their VMs that they use to connect to our customers. Apparently some of our client's VPN software wouldn't start due to the missing media codecs.

Didn't take long to figure out and then download and install the media pack. But for a while every time they set up a new VM I had to help them with this.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#277

Post by timeon »

magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

It is also happening in EU. It just bit harder than in 2-party system.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#278

Post by severino »

zerr wrote: post #194
magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

Btw, Microsoft seems to be circumventing US/EU sanctions. While traveling to eastern Europe, the fresh installation of Edge has yandex (pootin-linked company) as the default search engine, and also proposes other similarly shady websites like mailru.

I don't think there is any EU sanction related to Yandex. I could always access it (with my default ISP settings, no VPN nor anything like that) and I don't know of anybody who couldn't, at least from inside the EU.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#279

Post by BurningPenguin »

vbeeaz wrote: post #229
magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

Because the EU does not have a tech sector, so they can pass any tech regulations without any fear for blowback.

Dude, we don't live in the middle ages. We have a tech sector. ASML, SAP, Infineon, Nokia, Dassault Systèmes and so on.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#280

Post by PoignardAzur »

BlarfMcFlarf wrote: post #171
magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

Because while corruption* is still rampant in the EU, it’s not at least directly protected by the constitution like in the USA, so occasionally some legislation that benefits normal folks over megacorporations manages to sneak through. *also known as lobbying with so much money you can buy millions of times as much “free” speech as everyone else.

... sigh.

Lobbying isn't equivalent to corruption.

While the two can get very similar in the US because US elections have no campaign spending cap, therefore politicians (and even some civil servants) have a constant need for massive political donations, in general lobbying is a lot more complex than "spend money, get law you like". It usually involves a high amount of, you guessed it, waiting around in lobbies.

In the EU, the stereotypical industry lobbyist is a guy who will invite some commission members to a very fancy restaurant and tell them "About this regulation you're passing, we've prepared a full binder on it, with different policy options you could consider, case studies illustrating the trade-offs of each option, ideas for further research, etc".

Bureaucrats know that the content of the binder will be biased towards the interests of the companies that funded it, but they still read it because it's full of industry information and technical knowledge they don't have.

There's allegedly a bit of give and take, where they expect the info to be biased, but not too obviously biased otherwise they stop returning your calls.

Good bureaucrats will then cross-reference that info with info from competing interest groups, researchers, wikipedia, etc, and hope that they end up with a balanced view of the industry. Bad bureaucrats will just copy the biggest group's proposed laws verbatim.

But in any case, calling it "rampant corruption" is just ignorant. There's a lot of thought put into that process beyond "do what the corporations want".

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