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De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

arstechnica.com

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Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#261

Post by surgical_fire »

hurril wrote: post #234
pavlov wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple preloads the phone with commercial apps that I didn't ask for like Apple Music, and those apps will get automatically triggered for some content. They show news and other unsolicited content practically in the home screen (the widget screen is just a swipe away, every user will stumble there). What's the difference? I think people are a bit blind to Apple's defaults. They compare a fresh Windows 11 install to t…

Yes, it does come with Apple Music (and whatever Apple News it - perhaps I've missed it?) And they do nag about using Apple Music a lot. I dislike that they do this and Apple can be criticised for a million different things. 1) this is not it; 2) this is not what Microsoft is doing. It has filled the Dock with (all) Apple apps the last 15+ years. I don't quite understand why you're comparing a desktop OS to the phone…

It absolutely is the same thing Microsoft does, just with different branding. In fact, Apple was doing it before MS. If anything, MS is just copying Apple there.

The only difference is that they have been doing it for 15+ years and during this time they convinced you that it is okay that they do it on a pocket computer, as if it was somehow magically different.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#262

Post by chakintosh »

magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

> lobby

There is no such thing in the EU. You can't just waltz into the European parliament and lobby (read: bribe) your way into regulations that favor you like it's the case in the USA. Once the parliament votes on something, it's done.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#263

Post by actionfromafar »

haspok wrote: post #226
gloosx wrote: post #187

I remember the first time I used a Windows system last year after tens of years on Linux/OSX, and it was really a somewhat strange experience: the moment I connected the ethernet cable I was instantly looking at random flashy news articles from another part of the world. Not in the browser, not in some kind of "News" app, but right in my taskbar! The most amazing part is that I did not even have to click on it – the…

The really shocking part of this is that people actually pay money for this experience. This reminds me of the adblocker wars: those who play smart and cheap are better off than those who play dumb and expensive. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

No, it works as intended, it’s Economics 101: market discrimination.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#264

Post by actionfromafar »

chakintosh wrote: post #262
magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

> lobby There is no such thing in the EU. You can't just waltz into the European parliament and lobby (read: bribe) your way into regulations that favor you like it's the case in the USA. Once the parliament votes on something, it's done.

Sarcasm?

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#265

Post by dijit »

blackoil wrote: post #248
hurril wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it does come with Apple Music (and whatever Apple News it - perhaps I've missed it?) And they do nag about using Apple Music a lot. I dislike that they do this and Apple can be criticised for a million different things. 1) this is not it; 2) this is not what Microsoft is doing. It has filled the Dock with (all) Apple apps the last 15+ years. I don't quite understand why you're comparing a desktop OS to the phone…

Let's compare apps from the article. "Camera, Cortana/CoPilot, and Photos can now be uninstalled". Mac and iOS come with PhotoBooth/Camera, Siri and Photos preinstalled, I don't think can be removed. "No Bing, no Edge, no upselling." You can't remove Safari, comes with upselling to Apple drive. Apple also comes preinstalled with Maps, Music, BookReader, NewsClient, MailClient, TV app, Notes app. For all I have better…

We’re talking passed each other, because the parent is complaining that “random third party ads” are in the task bar, nothing to do with Microsoft and not relevant to the context they’re in.

Apple News could be criticized for having a default list of news sources and I think that’s fair. But the news app is first party. Apple Music could be criticized for its upselling, and that’s justified as heck, but it’s still first party.

However; Safari and edge aren’t comparable. Safari seems to be perfectly content in being relegated to storage, never to hit memory or the CPU again, and I believe it is possible to remove it. Edge begs for its life when you even consider installing an alternative browser.

That’s not the topic being discussed in this branch of the thread as far as I understood it, but even if you were to take that point it’s a very large difference.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#266

Post by dendrite9 »

Out of curiosity, why did the title here change sometime in the last couple hours? It was something like the "no Bing, No Edge, .." from the current Ars title. Did they change the article title after this was posted here? I know Ars does A-B titles for a period after publishing.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#267

Post by hurril »

heavyset_go wrote: post #260
hurril wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don't do the exact same thing at all. One comes preloaded with apps you didn't choose and news or ads right on the task bar. Apple does none of that.

By default, Apple loads up the news widget in the macOS notification area. Clicking on a story opens it in the Apple News app, which is also in your dock by default.

Do you want me to understand a news app or widget as the same thing as unwarranted ads in the start menu?

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#268

Post by zealotsm »

piyush_soni wrote: post #240
BlarfMcFlarf wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because while corruption* is still rampant in the EU, it’s not at least directly protected by the constitution like in the USA, so occasionally some legislation that benefits normal folks over megacorporations manages to sneak through. *also known as lobbying with so much money you can buy millions of times as much “free” speech as everyone else.

This always surprises me. While as an Indian I'm ashamed of the level of corruption we have in every government system of ours, at least it's still called corruption (and is illegal) what US calls lobbying (and is legal).

Sadly, electoral bonds make this less true. All the benefits of lobbying for businesses with none of the transparency that political donations have in the US.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#269

Post by beowulfey »

pavlov wrote: post #219
gloosx wrote: post #187

I remember the first time I used a Windows system last year after tens of years on Linux/OSX, and it was really a somewhat strange experience: the moment I connected the ethernet cable I was instantly looking at random flashy news articles from another part of the world. Not in the browser, not in some kind of "News" app, but right in my taskbar! The most amazing part is that I did not even have to click on it – the…

> "the system carefully opened it for me to delight me with some low-quality not-even-local news" To be fair, Apple does this exact same thing on their operating system. On a freshly installed iPhone, swipe right at the home screen. It takes you to the widget screen which is loaded by default with Apple News showing random junk. Microsoft deserves the flak for turning Windows 11 into a billboard, but Apple isn't immu…

While Apple is far from perfect, the difference in extent between the two is pretty dramatic. I switched back to MacOS from Windows this year because Windows 11 was annoying me to no end. Microsoft has gone much farther down the anti-user experience road.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#270

Post by toyg »

blindhippo wrote: post #102
cmcaleer wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got my first mac through work this year and I hate the UI. I am baffled by whoever thought having icons leap in the toolbar as a default behaviour was an OK thing to do. Drives me crazy when I use a Mac other than mine. I have lots of little issues with the UX. Play button opening Apple Music -- ahh! Running unsigned apps is easy but I always get caught out by the right click thing. > you can install a dozen litt…

I gave up trying to use a mouse on OSX years ago (the acceleration curve causes physical pain for me) and leaned into what Apple did right: trackpads. I got an apple trackpad for my desk setup, and otherwise use the built in trackpad on the macbook. Doesn't help for those who need a mouse device (cad/design/photo-editing, etc), but for what I use it for (software dev/ops work), it's great. Trackpads in a windows ecos…

Trackpads are terrible for your wrist though.
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