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De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

arstechnica.com

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Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#231

Post by fsflover »

episteme wrote: post #217
microtonal wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that this is hard. But the end solution is not installing European Windows versions, but fixing government, especially curtailing lobbying, campaign funding, etc. And break the narrative 'market is everything, government is the enemy' that is so common in the US. Some regulation is good, it makes the market fairer to everyone.

Hard, impractical, incredibly slow and high chance of failure. Sounds like maybe installing an EU version is reasonable in comparison.

All your adjectives apply to installing an EU version in the long term.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#232

Post by rollulus »

magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

Re: “not lobbying”: Google, Meta and Apple are in the top 10 by budget: https://www.lobbyfacts.eu/

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#233

Post by gloosx »

pavlov wrote: post #219
gloosx wrote: post #187

I remember the first time I used a Windows system last year after tens of years on Linux/OSX, and it was really a somewhat strange experience: the moment I connected the ethernet cable I was instantly looking at random flashy news articles from another part of the world. Not in the browser, not in some kind of "News" app, but right in my taskbar! The most amazing part is that I did not even have to click on it – the…

> "the system carefully opened it for me to delight me with some low-quality not-even-local news" To be fair, Apple does this exact same thing on their operating system. On a freshly installed iPhone, swipe right at the home screen. It takes you to the widget screen which is loaded by default with Apple News showing random junk. Microsoft deserves the flak for turning Windows 11 into a billboard, but Apple isn't immu…

Not that I like the way Apple does business, but these days, phones are really used for distraction. So, it is a bit more logical to put a news aggregator there. At least you have to swipe right, and it is not doing it for you. At least it is not pushing this widget down your throat. And there's nothing like that on the desktop system. When you first launch and go through some onboarding wizards, it just stands amazingly still and chill. No single pixel of the interface is moving away or appearing in front of your face out of nowhere without your interaction

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#234

Post by hurril »

pavlov wrote: post #224
hurril wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don't do the exact same thing at all. One comes preloaded with apps you didn't choose and news or ads right on the task bar. Apple does none of that.

Apple preloads the phone with commercial apps that I didn't ask for like Apple Music, and those apps will get automatically triggered for some content. They show news and other unsolicited content practically in the home screen (the widget screen is just a swipe away, every user will stumble there). What's the difference? I think people are a bit blind to Apple's defaults. They compare a fresh Windows 11 install to t…

Yes, it does come with Apple Music (and whatever Apple News it - perhaps I've missed it?) And they do nag about using Apple Music a lot.

I dislike that they do this and Apple can be criticised for a million different things. 1) this is not it; 2) this is not what Microsoft is doing.

It has filled the Dock with (all) Apple apps the last 15+ years.

I don't quite understand why you're comparing a desktop OS to the phone OS, but I guess that can make some sense?

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#235

Post by thefz »

magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

> How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU?

Because believe it or not, corporations are legally people and are required to obey the law. Not above the law, like in the US.

Lobby all you want, but weigh the cost of having an entire market worth millions of people denied to your business. Comply or GTFO.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#236

Post by SkiFire13 »

dimtion wrote: post #58
magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

It is called the Brussels Effect[0] Put simply, given how large the EU market is, and how strong its regulation is, it is cheaper for companies to comply, even outside of the market. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

This explains why they comply to the EU regulations even in the USA, but not why they don't try to lobby more in the EU to avoid those regulations in the first place.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#237

Post by soco »

orthoxerox wrote: post #202
cookiengineer wrote: post #178

Pro Hint: due to licensing issues and EU regulations, "Windows Pro Education N" is pretty much the most bloatware free version, as it's also compliant with HIPAA. - No media codecs - No AI recording/transcription features due to missing media codecs - No cortana - No Teams upselling, no Office upselling, no Skype - No self installing games

I installed the N version once, and the lack of media codecs was infuriating. Most programs assume they are always present, so the error messages they give are cryptic and the average user won't guess the problem lies in their Windows having been N(eutered). What's worse, Microsoft website provides several guides that explain how to install the codecs, and they all contradict each other. I think https://support.micro…

Only when I started programming lambdas I realized how life-saving resource tests and error messages really are. You could say it was straightforward, when you think about it, but I definitely wasn't following it properly before. It turned to be a very important lesson, which I carried with me in all other environments as well "for fun and profit".

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#239

Post by poorlyknit »

lovepronmostly wrote: post #14
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulators didn't enforce cookie banners. Cookie banners are a form of malicious compliance. When you complain about them, you are doing the lobbying work of ad companies for free. The correct solution is to just not spy on people, and the problem is that the EU didn't go far enough and just ban the behavior altogether.

What is the limit here? If I own a store and you walk into my store am I required to forget that you came into my store? Monday: Bill: "Hey Jane (store owner), do you have any X45 hammers?" Jane: "Sorry Bill, I'm out but might have some tomorrow" Tuesday: Bill "Did hammer come in I mentioned yesterday?" Jane: "What hammer? Sorry I'm not allowed to remember anything about people in my shop because that would be spying…

> am I required to forget that you came into my store?

No. Your head is not covered by the GDPR. It requires you to not keep a record of all your clients' personal info without a legitimate interest.

There's a Seinfeld episode where Elaine goes to buy a fancy pen at a stationery store which isn't available atm. The clerk asks for her full name and number to notify her (that's a legitimate interest) but then uses it to hit on/stalk her (that would be a GDPR violation). Presumably he also doesn't get rid of the number after their business transaction.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#240

Post by piyush_soni »

BlarfMcFlarf wrote: post #171
magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

Because while corruption* is still rampant in the EU, it’s not at least directly protected by the constitution like in the USA, so occasionally some legislation that benefits normal folks over megacorporations manages to sneak through. *also known as lobbying with so much money you can buy millions of times as much “free” speech as everyone else.

This always surprises me. While as an Indian I'm ashamed of the level of corruption we have in every government system of ours, at least it's still called corruption (and is illegal) what US calls lobbying (and is legal).
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