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De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

arstechnica.com

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Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#51

Post by d357r0y3r »

zbrozek wrote: post #43
just_boost_it wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a mac for the first time this year. Honestly, it feels like taking a shower after getting home from the beach on a sunny day when you've been wearing sunscreen. Everything just works with no extra garbage, no constant intrusive updates, no hassle. The only issue I had was the lack of alt-tab, and that was solved by an app called alt-tab.

I got my first mac through work this year and I hate the UI. It's very nice that it doesn't come with as much bloat (but it does still come it, e.g., Apple news, music, etc). I absolutely hate the window management. Inconsistent behavior on double click of the title bar (Chrome maximizes and Slack doesn't) is annoying. Lack of snapping and tiling (a la super-arrow) drives me nuts. That command-tab will switch me to a…

Try Rectangle: https://rectangleapp.com/

One of the first things I install on a new MBP.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#52

Post by whatshisface »

lovepronmostly wrote: post #26
kmeisthax wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. In fact, you already do this most of the time. The right to be forgotten is so fundamental to humanity that humans have to expend extra effort to violate it and remember stuff. Machines with perfect memory violate the right to be forgotten by default and we have to tell them to forget things. Hence the regulation.

I don't do this most of the time. It keep a diary. I keep records of all kinds of stuff.

I would be uncomfortable if I had found out your diary contained as much about my daily travel and grocery errands as I know can be bought by marketing firms, or anyone with the right relationships in the industry. For that matter, the friendly greengrocer doesn't know what I bought at the shoe store.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#53

Post by magnio »

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future.

Not that I'm complaining of course, but still, quite a surreal moment.

[0]: https://www.engadget.com/eu-confirms-the-six-tech-giants-sub...

The 6 companies are Google, Amazon, Apple, Meta, ByteDance, and Microsoft.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#54

Post by aaomidi »

anon25783 wrote: post #30
lovepronmostly wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the limit here? If I own a store and you walk into my store am I required to forget that you came into my store? Monday: Bill: "Hey Jane (store owner), do you have any X45 hammers?" Jane: "Sorry Bill, I'm out but might have some tomorrow" Tuesday: Bill "Did hammer come in I mentioned yesterday?" Jane: "What hammer? Sorry I'm not allowed to remember anything about people in my shop because that would be spying…

A website run by a large corporation is very different from a store run by Jane. Jane does not have thousands or millions of people coming into her store, and she also is not selling CCTV footage from her store to advertising companies. We would be rightly outraged if she was. She also probably isn't sharing customer details or security footage with government authorities unless her store has been robbed or something…

This is a thing that these comparisons always miss.

These rules aren’t for your dream small business. It’s for a mega corp that would literally not care if you lived or died or if that hammer hit you on the head.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#55

Post by jchw »

just_boost_it wrote: post #23
aetherspawn wrote: post #3

Suppose you are buying a new laptop ... does anyone else feel sad that their operating system has effectively turned into some weird social media marketing tracking data harvesting hybrid of a thing? But in the name of progress and security, you can't stay on Windows 10. So for me it's this weird middle ground right now .. waiting for either Windows to U-turn, die out, or for more work apps to port to OS X.

I got a mac for the first time this year. Honestly, it feels like taking a shower after getting home from the beach on a sunny day when you've been wearing sunscreen. Everything just works with no extra garbage, no constant intrusive updates, no hassle. The only issue I had was the lack of alt-tab, and that was solved by an app called alt-tab.

I find macOS annoying no matter what I do. AltTab is nice, but the window management still sucks in my opinion. The security bandages used to work around traditional desktop security models makes it feel incredibly annoying to use; I'll try to set a keyboard shortcut (not a global one mind you) in iTerm2 and suddenly I need to enable iTerm2 to have accessibility access?

Disabling SIP is needed for a myriad of things that aren't really that advanced, like for example, it is needed for some reason by some of the macOS "tiling WM" toys, and it's needed to even use any kexts. No joke: Discord will direct you to disable SIP if you want to .. capture audio during screenshares. It's also needed for macFUSE.

macOS also has no equivalent to WSL2. "But it's POSIX!" I can hear you say. Very fair point, but there are a lot of uses for lightweight Linux VMs, like, well, testing Linux things. Docker Desktop tries but it's slow. I really wanted to like Podman Desktop but it's similarly slow, and I had trouble with networking in a difficult-to-debug way. I strongly recommend Orb Stack here: it basically brings the WSL2 experience to macOS, except maybe even a bit better, vastly prefer it to Docker Desktop. That said, it's a monthly cost, which is definitely not ideal. There's also Colima but I have to say I don't love it either; no IPv6 support isn't a killer but it was annoying to find out the hard way.

I could probably make do with macOS if forced, but I wouldn't enjoy it. That said, I can't really take having to deal with the rest of the Apple ecosystem, so I am stuck very deep into Linux. To be fair, this is nothing new for me: Linux has been my primary desktop OS since high school. But I wouldn't say it's a good desktop OS. I mostly use it because I don't really feel like I have any other options and I already paid the cost to get deep into it anyway.

(I don't hate everything about Apple obviously, but to be honest, my desire to use Apple Silicon devices was mostly tied to high hopes for Asahi Linux)

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#56

Post by weikju »

zbrozek wrote: post #43
just_boost_it wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a mac for the first time this year. Honestly, it feels like taking a shower after getting home from the beach on a sunny day when you've been wearing sunscreen. Everything just works with no extra garbage, no constant intrusive updates, no hassle. The only issue I had was the lack of alt-tab, and that was solved by an app called alt-tab.

I got my first mac through work this year and I hate the UI. It's very nice that it doesn't come with as much bloat (but it does still come it, e.g., Apple news, music, etc). I absolutely hate the window management. Inconsistent behavior on double click of the title bar (Chrome maximizes and Slack doesn't) is annoying. Lack of snapping and tiling (a la super-arrow) drives me nuts. That command-tab will switch me to a…

There’s a setting to enable/disable switching to a space with an app’s window when switching to an app. That should help with one of your issues.

Kb shortcuts are standard - for a Mac ;). Heck in most apps you can even use standard readline shortcuts like ctrl-e for end of line, ctrl-a for start of line , ctrl-n and -p for next and previous etc. Same as in emacs or in a terminal window.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#57

Post by waythenewsgoes »

magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

I would imagine they did lobby against this, likely fighting tooth and nail legally. However I do not think the EU is as easily swayed, especially as EU regulators are generally skeptical of the business practices of large US multinationals. IMO, and possibly objectively, the EU is generally more pro-competition and pro-privacy, it is also much harder to buy out politicians due to the parties being really fragmented and it would appear more difficult to unilaterally impose the will of these corps on their citizens.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#58

Post by dimtion »

magnio wrote: post #53

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but how on earth did the EU pass a regulation[0] with such far-reaching implications? First Apple opening up to third-party app stores and RCS, now Microsoft giving users a bit more leeway. How come none of the big tech lobby against it in the EU? If it survives the waves of appeals, the DMA will probably change the entire technology landscape in the near future. Not that I'm complaining…

It is called the Brussels Effect[0]

Put simply, given how large the EU market is, and how strong its regulation is, it is cheaper for companies to comply, even outside of the market.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#59

Post by jasonjayr »

anon25783 wrote: post #30
lovepronmostly wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the limit here? If I own a store and you walk into my store am I required to forget that you came into my store? Monday: Bill: "Hey Jane (store owner), do you have any X45 hammers?" Jane: "Sorry Bill, I'm out but might have some tomorrow" Tuesday: Bill "Did hammer come in I mentioned yesterday?" Jane: "What hammer? Sorry I'm not allowed to remember anything about people in my shop because that would be spying…

A website run by a large corporation is very different from a store run by Jane. Jane does not have thousands or millions of people coming into her store, and she also is not selling CCTV footage from her store to advertising companies. We would be rightly outraged if she was. She also probably isn't sharing customer details or security footage with government authorities unless her store has been robbed or something…

Probably?

* Using Quickbooks Online? they market/sell that data.

* using ADT for payroll? They market/sell employee salary information.

* Using Ring for security? they freely share video with LEO

* etc, etc. All these services that SMB's use already have their fingers in the pie.

Re: De-crufted Windows 11 coming to Europe soon

#60

Post by zamadatix »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #8
zacksiri wrote: post #7

This is one of the marks of good product managers. Cut the cruft from the product. It's refreshing that in this case regulators are cutting things from the product rather than enforcing things to be added like cookie banners.

Regulators didn't enforce cookie banners. Cookie banners are a form of malicious compliance. When you complain about them, you are doing the lobbying work of ad companies for free. The correct solution is to just not spy on people, and the problem is that the EU didn't go far enough and just ban the behavior altogether.

The rules are really surprisingly encouraging about notification of cookies to the point it's quite easy to legitimately need to notify and gain consent about something non-spying related requires consent. E.g. if you have a UI customization cookie which sets the results density preference and you want to store that more than a session (i.e. it should still save for a month later) then the official EU analysis of this is you must notify this is a cookie and that setting this will set this cookie.

If the law didn't intend for users to be inundated with notification banners and consent checkboxes it sure is odd how much time they spent about writing how anything but the most basic connection cookies require said things.

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