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Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

signal.org

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Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#681

Post by loteck »

wkat4242 wrote: post #435
godelski wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They take checks by mail. You definitely can do a cashier's check and I'm sure they'd take the "cash in an envelope" method that places like Mullvad do too. Looks like they also support crypto, and that includes Zcash. So I don't think this is a great excuse. The only "can't easily donate" aspect is going to also be tied with the "can't easily get a cashier's check or find an anonymous person to sell me bitcoin for c…

How is a check in any way private? Your name is on it.

Hi, privacy and anonymity are different things. Named transactions can still be private.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#682

Post by lxgr »

nerdbert wrote: post #628
lxgr wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spend $20mm (or whatever) to maintain access, and maintain infrastructure and they get to send as many SMS messages as they want. This is not how SMS pricing works in many, if not, most countries.

I don't know of countries that mandate a minimum price. If you are doing high volume you are free to work directly with carriers. If you are drawing as much billable traffic as you are sending, then that could even be a wash.

It’s not countries mandating a minimum price (although regulators often impose a maximum), but the carriers themselves.

> If you are drawing as much billable traffic as you are sending

SMS verification traffic is usually unidirectional, so that’s very unlikely to be the case.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#683

Post by mensetmanusman »

JohnFen wrote: post #536
GabeIsko wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are just non-profit fundraiser consulting tactics. Don't take them personally, just ignore them. The reason they exist is that Wikipedia has too much money, so they spend some on consultants who say they can raise more. It's weird, but that's how the world works. I would much prefer the Wikipedia endowment model of non-profit orgs. They have a standard operating procedure with a predictable budget, and endowmen…

> Those are just non-profit fundraiser consulting tactics. Don't take them personally, just ignore them. I don't take them personally, of course, but they do encourage me to avoid forking over any money.

any excuse to not donate!

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#684

Post by [deleted] »

astrostl wrote: post #659

Love the product. Had a monthly recurring donation for many years. Dropped it over what I consider to be their serial mishandling of open source. See https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/pull/6186 for the latest chapter in the, "we won't implement desktop GIPHY that we announced in 2016, and also won't merge it when someone else thoughtfully implements it for us" saga.

[deleted]

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#685

Post by astrostl »

andrewguenther wrote: post #675
astrostl wrote: post #659

Love the product. Had a monthly recurring donation for many years. Dropped it over what I consider to be their serial mishandling of open source. See https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/pull/6186 for the latest chapter in the, "we won't implement desktop GIPHY that we announced in 2016, and also won't merge it when someone else thoughtfully implements it for us" saga.

I feel like they've made their position here quite clear and it's well-reasoned. I understand the disappointment, but this doesn't give any indications to me of "serial mishandling" unless there's some other context I'm missing? Open source != open to contributions. Signal has made it pretty clear that their motivations for open source are visibility and verifiability, not to get people to do work for them for free.…

They announced the feature coming to desktop "shortly" seven (7) years ago [1]. It has been implemented on mobile for ages, and is generally one of the most-popular features of any modern messaging service. In the years since, things like in-app cryptocurrency were implemented. Issues on GitHub dating back to 2017 were unceremoniously locked [2]. A community feature request has been open since 2018 [3]. When more issues on GitHub were created, they were told to discuss it in the one that was already locked, and didn't respond further once that was noted to be impossible [4].

When the PR was thoughtfully created long after it was clear that they wouldn't be honoring their own announcement, they said (approximately a year ago) that they would review and implement it with credit. After 6 months of darkness and petitioning, it was dismissed as being harder to review than to implement while disingenuously counting things like SVGs and license text as LOC. When some specific concerns were finally provided, the author responded point-by-point in how they were already researched and addressed, with a polite request for evidence so that they could correct any misunderstandings. The subsequent response ignored everything in that but the suggestion to update the contribution guide to align with their previously-unstated intent.

Serially mishandled. I'm not moving off of that position.

1: https://signal.org/blog/giphy-experiment/ 2: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/1862 3: https://community.signalusers.org/t/add-gif-search-giphy-to-... 4: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Desktop/issues/4841

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#686

Post by kojeovo »

willsmith72 wrote: post #664
Aachen wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20/month for every chat service I use is very steep. I'd be spending more on chat services than on mobile data + unlimited calling + landline + DSL + streaming services combined! They actual costs are apparently about 1 USD per year per user. I usually at least double (usually more) my incurred cost when the donation is optional, to cover for those who can't or won't pay, but paying 240× the cost price seems wasteful…

how many chat services do you use? and how many are making money off of you in other ways?

not who you replied to, but:

- signal for family and some techy friends

- whatsapp cuz some friends dont really get signal

- imessage cuz some friends dont get whatsapp nor signal

- viber cuz family across seas and that's whats popular there

- slack with some friends cuz it's nice to have focused discussions in channels

- discord cuz its better for gaming

- ig messaging cuz i stay in touch with less close acquaintances and some friends that way, comment on their stories and chat about whats going on in the moment

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#687

Post by 2oMg3YWV26eKIs »

I just tried donating at https://signal.org/donate/

It seems that with uBlock origin enabled in Firefox, I was unable to fill out either of the 2 donation forms on the page. It wouldn't let me fill in my Name in the first form, nor would it let me enter a custom amount in the 2nd form.

Disabling uBlock origin seems to resolve.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#688

Post by [deleted] »

devit wrote: post #634
resonantjacket5 wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's satire? Or perhaps they didn't know one can send pictures and videos on Signal and assumed it was only text.

Hmm, no? Photos are generally Videos are probably relatively rare and if not maybe they should do something about them, like not storing overly large ones them on servers and requiring both phones to be online to transfer. There's a 500x margin between the estimate and their costs anyway.

[deleted]

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#689

Post by mardifoufs »

sonicanatidae wrote: post #106
tofuahdude wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that SMS is so damn expensive? (or more specifically, what is it about Twilio et al's businesses that makes them cost so much?)

In the US, shafting customers as hard and fast as you can is the current business model. What are they going to do? Move to 1 or 2 remaining competitors with the exact same business model?

Most of that cost is literally coming from sms outside the us though. The rates for us sms are much lower than almost anywhere else.

Re: Privacy is priceless, but Signal is expensive

#690

Post by Dylan16807 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #679
charles_f wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are meant to manipulate me personally, as well as other persons I care about. I will take them personally. This, absolutely! they play on people's psyche and mental cabling by trying to guilt you in the same way your parent would ; it's manipulative, and I have an absolute hatred for these tactics.

I agree with everything before the semicolon. But as an NPR listener, I find it hard to be offended by it.

I bet NPR spends far more of their incoming money on their main product.
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