491–500 of 514 posts
What's worse than PHP, people that complain about it. It's like a plumber complaining about copper in lieu of plastic, no one gives a shit, just get the job done. Sitting in your little complaint hole , no matter how well thought out, doesn't really help you does it?
Besides, I enjoy analysis of programming languages, the good and the bad parts.
300+ comments... seriously? PHP is a language with problems like all others (c, java, python, etc). It can be used for good or for bad like any other programing language. All the problems on the article are well known by decent programmers. PHP is out there, use if you want. Go write decent code... stop nagging.
If you actually read the article, you knew that one of the author's point was that PHP's problems are magnitudes of magnitudes worse than other languages in the wild.
That's more or less a matter of fact and that there are still people deny it just shows the sad state of PHP "programming" in general.
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More programmers===better programs. How can this be a bad thing? I'm not sure this is true. Going with the articles example, that's like saying "the more people who know how to use a hammer, the better houses we will have".
It's true in the sense that giving everyone desktop publishing software in the early 90s led to lots of beautiful typography and well thought-out layouts.
However: I think today we have more beautiful design that we would have had if the design tools had not become democratized, maybe not in percentage, but certainly in amount.
My speculation: programming --> more programs. Both crap and great ones.
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I agree with the general point but this seems more of an indictment of other languages than a plus for PHP: with PHP, it's easy to get started with the most simple features - and then it takes years to learn how to cope with the language quirks and inconsistencies, deal with outright bugs, and learn a number of non-obvious ways in which your “working” site might be hacked due to a hidden language feature. There are t…
Maybe I'm missing something in your comment here, but - Python and Ruby already have smooth dev server installs. In fact, much smoother than PHP, as you don't need apache or fancy permissions to just run something local. Ruby, rails: "rails server" Ruby, sinatra: "ruby " Python, django: "python manage.py runserver" All of these spin up an app server on some port > 1024. I'm honestly not sure how it can get much easie…
The local stuff was indeed nice and simple.
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Instead of automatically throwing a 500 on a random, unimportant, uncaught exception, PHP makes a best effort, and most of the time the result is fine. And how precisely does PHP "know" which exceptions are important and which are not? In my experience of 6 years as a web developer, the faster and the more explicitly something fails the better. If the user gets a 500, that's a pretty clear sign of a problem, I get an…
I understand fail fast, and errors do still get logged and made visible (New Relic is great like that). I would rather fail a bit slower, silently, though. It's much less jarring to users, and therefore you lose fewer.
If there's an issue that affects business logic I'd like my app to display "Sorry, something blew up. Please leave a message and we'll get back to you." instead of chugging along quietly. If the error is not critical (some external feed gone, whatever) _I_ as a developer can decide to catch the error and handle, log or even ignore it. But it's not PHP that can decide to do so.
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As someone who goes to PHP when he needs to program for the web, and has been doing so for some 13 years now, seeing the horse beaten again didn't move me. I can't say I spent much time on your article, mostly because at this stage of my life, focusing on the negative doesn't earn you anything. I say that because, while it's clear you spent a lot of time on this, it's not really useful precisely because you don't pro…
PHP doesn't really have any strengths any more. The last one was ease of use and setup, but nginx and FastCGI seem to have beaten that too. The only things keeping it around as far as I can see are: * the huge lock-in with existing code + knowledge * network effects (aka. "Facebook and my mate Ken use PHP, therefore it must be good") * Most PHP devs don't know/want to know anything else. Like the post above says, lea…
I'll make the assumption you weren't talking to me, but rather, the general audience instead.
> Like the post above says, learn anything other than PHP.
Python is an excellent language to learn! I agree. However, people aren't interested in learning a language. Consider the context of my post, and the article, mind you. If you really want to help people choose a language, focus on the the accomplishment.
Case in point: Learn anything other than PHP.
That's the wrong approach. That's not good advice. In fact, that's horrible advice... for someone who wants to build a dynamic website.
And, frankly, if someone is looking to build a dynamic website, PHP makes that insanely easy. Much easier than anything else, especially when their hosting probably already has it up and ready to go.
So the challenge, as I see it, isn't to focus on "Not learning PHP", but simply saying "This is how you create dynamic websites" and use Python to do it.
You know the difference between most PHP tutorials and Python tutorials for beginners? PHP starts you out creating a dynamic website. Python starts you out using the REPL. 1+1 isn't going to inspire anyone. It isn't going to excite anyone.
But getting a form in place that displays the results? That's awesome!
That's the difference. I'm generalizing here, but I think it's a fair conclusion. I know their are articles for Python that focus on that, but they are far fewer then the ones you find for PHP.
And, with regards to this post we are discussing, the author really does just leave it at that.
Learn any language other than PHP is the worst advice you can give to someone who has an idea. They want to be focusing on the idea, not the installation or language. At that stage, they are focused on building, not the tools. You might argue (rightly) that the tools and material matter, but that isn't going to win you people choosing Python.
PHP being easy for beginners isn't just about the setup. It's the entire scope of the project, from the community, to the tutorials, to the software they are already using. If the only thing you focus on is installation, you won't succeed.
Sorry, this is a bit long. Hopefully my point is made.
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>> Here where I live, about 80% of webdev jobs are PHP. I'm getting the impression that this is why a lot of people hate PHP - Money. People don't like that the market is full of money wasted on an inferior language. Perhaps there's a bit of envy in that, perhaps not. The winners in the marketplace aren't always the best, and it's not easy to change minds. People get religious about the things that make their living,…
No, it's not the money. It's comfort, and the opportunity for less compromises when picking jobs. I want to be able to choose between three Ruby/Python/whatever shops and pick one with the coolest people and coolest projects, rather than having one Ruby/Python and two PHP shops to choose from. And, unlike you, I don't think these articles are pointless. I hope they help PHP get more bad reputation among coders, and p…
Bashing and negativity is not the way to do it.
You'll get much farther showing a PHP person something more interesting (whether it be Rails, Django, or whatever) and highlighting all the cool things about it. Because that person will not be on the defensive, his/her mind will be way more likely to have that 'Wow, that's so cool I should try it' moment.
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Sorry but that is quite hard to swallow. How are any of these not fit for building an MVP in 2012? http://silex.sensiolabs.org/ http://twig.sensiolabs.org https://github.com/nrk/predis There are also modern libraries for a plethora of other RDBMS and NoSQL systems (I think PHP is even going to support mongodb natively soon i.e. no third party client library required).
Please, the PHP industry is stuck on Wordpress and CodeIgniter which are amateur software. Yes, you can enjoy these wonderful modern tools for PHP at home meanwhile you suffer with old-tier libraries at work because everyone refuses to move forward.
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And again you make the same mistake. You take one solution, you say it doesn't work like your favorite solution (while obviously all proper solutions should be done exactly like the one you prefer, since there's only one right way to do anything and it's, not surprisingly, exactly the way you prefer) and you make it the fault of the language used for it's implementation. How that even makes sense? I write code in a n…
> How that even makes sense? Maybe my point wasn't clear. It's not a difference in how those two ORMs accomplish their goal; it's that PHP doesn't let you do what SQLAlchemy does, even if you wanted to . Want to write an ORM that uses YAML, XML, or comment annotation in Python? Great! Want to write an ORM that uses classes or objects as column declaration in PHP? Too bad. > Rehashing old tired "strpos doesn't have un…
Different language has different limitation. Just because you can not have SQLAlchemy in C, does not mean C encourage bad code.