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I think I need to go lie down

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Re: I think I need to go lie down

#361

Post by Der_Einzige »

JCharante wrote: post #90

Call me an unbeliever, but I don’t believe in the future of no code solutions. You will still have to align that button at smaller device resolutions, leave extra space so it looks nice in another language, and other requirements. Maybe it’ll enable us to use even more abstracted languages to build apps faster at most. This only works for extremely basic and common things like tic tac toe and not original works.

Look at the success of ComfyUI in the Generative AI world and node-based editing in the graphics world (i.e. blender). "No code" works, but it has to be tailored towards experts who want to actual write code sometimes, not billed as making it possible for suits to write software.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#362

Post by Der_Einzige »

random_cynic wrote: post #139

ITT: people in denial while the writing on the wall is literally shoved into their face.

I see it - the majority of knowledge work in the next 20 years will done better by computers than by humans. This will destroy the middle class world-wide.

That's the fear anyway.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#363

Post by msrobot0 »

skywhopper wrote: post #91
anonzzzies wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is one good thing going to come out of EVEN the fairly clumsy LLMs, it is that we probably can forget about this js frontend framework crap and can focus on work instead of figuring out what the taste-du-jour is. It won't matter; the LLM will translate it.

Probably not. Instead we’ll be stuck using the old frameworks driver because LLMs won’t be able to learn anything new without years of stack overflow examples.

Already I bet stack overflow usage has gone down because LLMs can help fixing bugs.

I think the documentation, open source code, and code examples are more important training sets.

And in. my experience the code is often maybe 95% correct, so there will be a greater premium on expert developers who can spot and fix bugs (with the aid of LLMs, since stack overflow will no longer have any answers since no one will use it having moved to LLMs)

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#364

Post by mrguyorama »

rchaud wrote: post #180
andrewstuart wrote: post #6

I was discussing with a client how to integrate our software with his. He sent me a screenshot of the main form. I put the screenshot into ChatGPT and said “make a react form like this in bootstrap”. Made some adjustments, added my software, a few hours later showed the client who was knocked out to see a proof of concept of our systems integrated so quickly. When doing web development I often take a screenshot of a…

Creating the front-end of a Bootstrap form with no backend logic isn't particularly impresssive, it's something that would be taught halfway through any bootcamp course. Source: me, a person who built BS sites for years until I finally got around to learning Flexbox and CSS Grid properly.

Hell, I can build that form WITH backend logic with like five minutes in django and I'm not even good with django!

If it takes you a long time to build a form, you've done something very very wrong.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#365

Post by mrguyorama »

lakpan wrote: post #270
pclmulqdq wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toward the end of its life, Dreamweaver's code was quite readable. Webflow today is kind of an equivalent, and also puts out relatively readable HTML. I think most of the reputation comes from people looking at its early output.

I’d say nobody who “hand crafts” code finds any generated code readable. AI almost puts a dent in that, but even that often produces really ugly code.

I once spent a week as an intern building a really clean and well done java swing UI options panel for a portion of our team's app. I was so proud of myself and thought it was so clear and concise and great. I told my manager it was all finished.

Well, no one else on the team was that familiar with java swing so they couldn't work with it, so one of my coworkers had to spend an hour rebuilding the panel in the UI builder that the rest of the app worked in. It produced a perfectly functional UI that had all the features requested and could be maintained by anyone on the team. Sure, the raw java file was twice as long, but who cares? It gets compiled.

I was enlightened on that day. "Elegant" is worthless in most cases. Five years later that entire app was rebuilt as a web app and nobody gave a shit whether one of it's option panels was artisanally hand crafted with care and love or spit out by an actually really good and regularized UI builder.

We are data plumbers. Nobody cares if the pipes you laid out are arranged to look like the mona lisa, and it's probably worse for the customer and maintenance that way anyway.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#367

Post by msrobot0 »

anonzzzies wrote: post #22
scopeh wrote: post #4

Lets make ourselves redundant. At least I won't have to relearn JS every 2 weeks.

If there is one good thing going to come out of EVEN the fairly clumsy LLMs, it is that we probably can forget about this js frontend framework crap and can focus on work instead of figuring out what the taste-du-jour is. It won't matter; the LLM will translate it.

I 10000% agree.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#368

Post by msrobot0 »

intended wrote: post #135

Earlier in the year I wanted to understand LLMs and GenAI so I tried to push their limits to see what broke and what didn't. One of my projects was to build a blog/site from scratch. I had 0 web dev/design background. My experience was starkly less optimistic, and am curious if any one else has tried something similar. ----- First off, I must state a deep respect to people who build + design websites, while dealing w…

I have generated some toy experiments for a monthish - gpt to generate code to do something - and did generate some web frameworks and pipelines - I did not have it generate a database - although that may be something to try next. I wanted to it generate circuit diagrams and molecules

My experiments https://www.qualitycontainers.io/ https://github.com/msrobot0/llmlexperiments/

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#369

Post by neilv »

FWIW, I'd guess that the 2 sliders with labels like those, and a square or other shape, matches very closely some GUI and pedagogical graphics toolkit tutorials upon which the LLM was trained (in which a slider rotates the shape).

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#370

Post by MattRix »

95014_refugee wrote: post #325
MattRix wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human beings build stuff non deterministically too. The key is just to give the tool more information along with the screenshot, for example showing it your current codebase so it writes code using the same conventions.

... and our opinions about how badly this is going to pan out are based on decades of experience with how badly that panned out. Nobody that has ever had to maintain software is going to look at this and be impressed. Without a reproducible and predictable set of transforms from the source artifact to the product artifact(s), maintenance of software generated in this fashion will be impossible. The concept of a "loca…

I don’t know why you’d assume the AI behind this wouldn’t end up with access to both the source and product artifacts, implementing changes in the most constrained/localized way possible.
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