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I think I need to go lie down

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Re: I think I need to go lie down

#231

Post by golergka »

JanneVee wrote: post #184

I feel old now. I'm fairly sure that we could do this almost as fast with VB or Delphi a couple of decades ago, but a little more deterministic results instead of having the tool inferring it from the label names. We had this and then we shoved everything in the browser and forgot that we could do this without using huge amount of compute of some generative AI model. Look at me I'm old yelling at clouds!

HN has this weird nostalgic thing for VB and Delphi, but I feel that most people who express it either haven't actually used these tools or don't remember it well. There's no way to do responsive interfaces with it. If you want anything but your OSes native controls, you're in the world of hell too. Even localisation is a problem. No unit, no integration tests. WYSIWYG editors mean that form files are changed automatically and it's often not realistic to review the diffs. And the languages itself — while being adequate for their time, they're don't even have support for functions as first-class objects, so compared to modern alternatives they're almost unusable and require enormous amount of boilerplate.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#232

Post by Q6T46nT668w6i3m »

saddlerustle wrote: post #199
sarchertech wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge part of the problem with LLM based no code is that the output is non-deterministic, so you can only check in the output to version control. Imagine what happens when you have dozens of barely technical people all adding features by sketching them and clicking “make it real”. Each one is producing hundreds of lines of code. At the end of the day someone is responsible for understanding the output because since…

The gpt4-turbo api is now deterministic

It isn’t. It’s “mostly deterministic,” whatever that means.

https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/text-generation/repr...

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#233

Post by rvbissell »

masklinn wrote: post #146
rvbissell wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> xitter has stopped showing and does not drive engagement. In the specific case in Xitter, I perceive that as a good change. I like seeing what was linked to, without otherwise getting engaged there.

Using nitter is the part which avoids engagement-ing with xitter. Not having any context is the part which makes links to xitter useless, most of the time you get a link to a reply but without context it’s difficult to impossible to understand what it’s about, and the link is functionally useless.

I know this doesn't help you in the particular circumstances you mentioned, but: for that I would place the blame on the person who provided the link, for not giving sufficient context to understand.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#234

Post by empath-nirvana »

JanneVee wrote: post #184

I feel old now. I'm fairly sure that we could do this almost as fast with VB or Delphi a couple of decades ago, but a little more deterministic results instead of having the tool inferring it from the label names. We had this and then we shoved everything in the browser and forgot that we could do this without using huge amount of compute of some generative AI model. Look at me I'm old yelling at clouds!

You couldn't have a conversation with Dreamweaver.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#235

Post by ilaksh »

ilaksh wrote: post #190
JanneVee wrote: post #184

I feel old now. I'm fairly sure that we could do this almost as fast with VB or Delphi a couple of decades ago, but a little more deterministic results instead of having the tool inferring it from the label names. We had this and then we shoved everything in the browser and forgot that we could do this without using huge amount of compute of some generative AI model. Look at me I'm old yelling at clouds!

There are still tools to do it. I think the reason they are not more popular with programmers is that it's basically some stupid subconscious thing where we are afraid of being accused of being users or beginners. Not something we realize consciously, but anything that doesn't involve complex colorful text naturally gets kind of peer pressured out because it looks like a "beginner tool".

The most up to date version might use something like Streamlit with a drag and drop editor.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#236

Post by cduzz »

SuperCuber wrote: post #217
cduzz wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to get people to pronounce it "eggs" as in Eggs, the site formerly known as twitter. So instead of a tweet you "egg something". I think it gives the site the dignity it deserves.

i like Xitter and Xcrete

Right, but the letter "X" may be pronounced "Eggs" and people may not even notice that you're not pronouncing it in a cool "Dimension X" scifi way with reverb and stuff.

Double Yew, Eggs, Why, Zee / Zed

Eccentric billionaire Elan Mosk, while cosplaying Howard Huges, Laid an egg that "he is going to make a wooden rocket that can land on the fondue oceans of the moon"

[edit: added the zed for friends who count on their hands starting at the thumb not pointer finger]

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#237

Post by PaulHoule »

easeout wrote: post #220
JanneVee wrote: post #184

I feel old now. I'm fairly sure that we could do this almost as fast with VB or Delphi a couple of decades ago, but a little more deterministic results instead of having the tool inferring it from the label names. We had this and then we shoved everything in the browser and forgot that we could do this without using huge amount of compute of some generative AI model. Look at me I'm old yelling at clouds!

I think we'd all be gladly sitting atop high abstractions like that if not for the fact that brands pay the bills, and brands want custom experiences. Website and app design often begins with "what does a button look like," and design tools focus not on prebuilt widgets but on paths and fills, because the last thing a brand wants is to speak with different tones in different media. Their software has to feel like the…

This is what kills Horizon Worlds, which is Facebook's earnest answer to the problem of making VR authoring much easier than "making a video game"

I want to make a 3-d world based on photographs (even stereo) and visual art and to do that I need to import JPG or PNG images. No can do. They have a short list of textures they supply, but you cannot import media assets like images, audio, video, geometry, point clouds, whatever, ...

McDonald's would insist on putting a Coca-Cola logo on the cups and so would every other brand.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#238

Post by password4321 »

jszymborski wrote: post #208
ilaksh wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still tools to do it. I think the reason they are not more popular with programmers is that it's basically some stupid subconscious thing where we are afraid of being accused of being users or beginners. Not something we realize consciously, but anything that doesn't involve complex colorful text naturally gets kind of peer pressured out because it looks like a "beginner tool".

I first started programming with VB6 and have yearned to make a GUI program as simply as I did then. Can you point me to something as simple? I've tried Glade before but the time I used it I didn't find it a particularly pleasant experience

Windows Forms for .NET Framework 4 using Visual Studio was (is?) a simple Windows-only option.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#239

Post by nvm0n2 »

maaaaattttt wrote: post #229
JanneVee wrote: post #184

I feel old now. I'm fairly sure that we could do this almost as fast with VB or Delphi a couple of decades ago, but a little more deterministic results instead of having the tool inferring it from the label names. We had this and then we shoved everything in the browser and forgot that we could do this without using huge amount of compute of some generative AI model. Look at me I'm old yelling at clouds!

I have kind of the same opinion. Maybe more provocative. When people show me figma to HTML with AI I tell them “have you ever heard of Dreamweaver?” Ok, dreamweaver code was ugly and unusable when AI generated code is not too bad (sometimes). But still, I also feel we kinda were already close to where we’re at today.

Are you sure? I remember one of Dreamweaver competitive advantages was that it produced much cleaner HTML than it's competitors. FrontPage was the big offender with awful code.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#240

Post by lanstin »

jszymborski wrote: post #208
ilaksh wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are still tools to do it. I think the reason they are not more popular with programmers is that it's basically some stupid subconscious thing where we are afraid of being accused of being users or beginners. Not something we realize consciously, but anything that doesn't involve complex colorful text naturally gets kind of peer pressured out because it looks like a "beginner tool".

I first started programming with VB6 and have yearned to make a GUI program as simply as I did then. Can you point me to something as simple? I've tried Glade before but the time I used it I didn't find it a particularly pleasant experience

I used VBA and Tk. They were good. I always assumed front end web people have similar tools?
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