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I think I need to go lie down

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Re: I think I need to go lie down

#121

I was discussing with a client how to integrate our software with his. He sent me a screenshot of the main form. I put the screenshot into ChatGPT and said “make a react form like this in bootstrap”. Made some adjustments, added my software, a few hours later showed the client who was knocked out to see a proof of concept of our systems integrated so quickly. When doing web development I often take a screenshot of a…

Yeah, but maybe the client didn't want you to expose his data to ChatGPT.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#122
post #88
post #33

Such recent demos show both how impressively ML/AI has advanced recently, and how unimpressively repetitive and unoriginal tasks keep being reimplemented by millions of developers worldwide. Since most UI screens can be accurately described in one or two paragraphs, it's no wonder they can be represented in much detail in a relatively small embedding vector.

Huh? UIs should be repetitive not impressive or original, so users don't have to learn different new interface for every app.

OK but if it's that common it shouldn't take more time to create the final result than the time it took to draw it and render it. We don't want to spend time at such a low level abstraction, we want to be describing higher-level behavior.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#123
post #99
post #10

Ugh Twitter / X. That site needs to die - it’s honestly so broken, none of the redirects seem to work today.

I'm trying to get people to pronounce it "eggs" as in Eggs, the site formerly known as twitter. So instead of a tweet you "egg something". I think it gives the site the dignity it deserves.

Lay down some yolks

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#124

I was discussing with a client how to integrate our software with his. He sent me a screenshot of the main form. I put the screenshot into ChatGPT and said “make a react form like this in bootstrap”. Made some adjustments, added my software, a few hours later showed the client who was knocked out to see a proof of concept of our systems integrated so quickly. When doing web development I often take a screenshot of a…

But the thing is, creating a basic form page -is- simple. What is so amazing, is that after ~25 years of web development, we have continued to make it more complicated than it should be, by continuously coming up with new web frameworks that are brilliant for all kind of fancy use cases but overcomplicated for the more common and basic tasks. Yes, there have been exceptions every now and then, but most web devs don't…

Not just simple, it's a thing I'd never even ask a coder to do anymore. I'd pay for Hubspot or some kind of form-management SaaS tool.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#125

I was discussing with a client how to integrate our software with his. He sent me a screenshot of the main form. I put the screenshot into ChatGPT and said “make a react form like this in bootstrap”. Made some adjustments, added my software, a few hours later showed the client who was knocked out to see a proof of concept of our systems integrated so quickly. When doing web development I often take a screenshot of a…

But the thing is, creating a basic form page -is- simple. What is so amazing, is that after ~25 years of web development, we have continued to make it more complicated than it should be, by continuously coming up with new web frameworks that are brilliant for all kind of fancy use cases but overcomplicated for the more common and basic tasks. Yes, there have been exceptions every now and then, but most web devs don't…

The software world is much more flexible than the real world (yeah , I know, you're taking to Sherlock here).

Go to a civil engineer and ask to create a building that tilts extremely on one side and requires concrete reinforcement with titanium whatever... they will laugh at you.

Do the equivalent to a software engineer or product manager and they will hurry to invent yet another framework to satisfy your request, without giving a second thought about long-term consequences.

My point is that the real world has the laws of physics keeping things in check. With software, we don't have such obvious hard limits and each situation is case-by-case with lots of variables... it gets messy.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#126
post #84

I was discussing with a client how to integrate our software with his. He sent me a screenshot of the main form. I put the screenshot into ChatGPT and said “make a react form like this in bootstrap”. Made some adjustments, added my software, a few hours later showed the client who was knocked out to see a proof of concept of our systems integrated so quickly. When doing web development I often take a screenshot of a…

Yes, the customer will be impressed by your speed the first time. The second time, he will expect it. The third time, when requirements have grown enough to be beyond what ChatGPT can deal with, he'll be angry that timescales have exploded.

Yeah, let's see about the long run.

Right now with the increased productivity, it leads to customer engagements that previously wouldn't have been possible for me. E.g. now it's feasible from a cost standpoint to let me as a freelancer build internal tooling that previously would have been to expensive in total. It's also easier to deliver initial MVP milestones for projects for a price that's in a much more comfortable range for smaller companies.

Yeah, that advantage may go away, but just like good "googling" was/is a skill that can set you apart from your peers, proper usage of LLMs is a skill as well that needs to be learned (and that many won't).

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#127

Call me an unbeliever, but I don’t believe in the future of no code solutions. You will still have to align that button at smaller device resolutions, leave extra space so it looks nice in another language, and other requirements. Maybe it’ll enable us to use even more abstracted languages to build apps faster at most. This only works for extremely basic and common things like tic tac toe and not original works.

A huge part of the problem with LLM based no code is that the output is non-deterministic, so you can only check in the output to version control.

Imagine what happens when you have dozens of barely technical people all adding features by sketching them and clicking “make it real”. Each one is producing hundreds of lines of code. At the end of the day someone is responsible for understanding the output because since the output is non-deterministic, that’s all we have.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which of the 7251 reactive JS frameworks do you want to pair with which of the 15281 css frameworks to achieve the result?

Does the user care?

Yes. Almost none of those get i18n, hotkeys, shortcuts, taborder, screenreaders and other accessibility right.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#129
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the customer will be impressed by your speed the first time. The second time, he will expect it. The third time, when requirements have grown enough to be beyond what ChatGPT can deal with, he'll be angry that timescales have exploded.

I don't know if "do everything manually and slowly so that you never have to set realistic expectations" is a great way to do business. Being worse at your job on purpose isn't typically a great strategy. It sounds to me like the commenter has found a subset of his work which can be sped up significantly with chatGPT and is using that to continue conversations with a potential client. Pretty cool if you ask me.

> I don't know if "do everything manually and slowly so that you never have to set realistic expectations" is a great way to do business.

It’s called Expectation Management. It’s how successful business is done.

Marketing 101: Under promise, over deliver.

P.S. Apple is quite good at this IMHO. I notice they often very quickly go from product announcement to product availability. My theory for why this is good is that there less time in between for people’s imagination to run wild and fill in the information gaps with their own ideas that the actual product might not satisfy. Expectations remain ground when their customers receive the product vs a product getting hyped to the moon such that it’s practically impossible for it to ever live up to the hype.

Re: I think I need to go lie down

#130

I just see this as a tool to help make UI designers (and maybe POs) look smart and competent, but the real work is going to go to the programmers, just as it does today. UI designers will be able to give a "demo" but how will this basic functionality translate to the rest of the app? It won't.

> how will this basic functionality translate to the rest of the app? It won't.

It certainly will lead to fun and productive conversations like “it’s already working right there! Why is it going to take so long to get it into the app?!? Can’t you just download it?”

Since well before GPT there has been an argument for making very early prototypes/mocks more obviously lo-fi, such that their visual polish is proportional to how functional they are under the hood.

Beautiful, seemingly “working” UI-only prototypes have a way of setting unrealistic expectations even with clear communication, leading to a higher probability of proto-duction.

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