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I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

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Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#141

Post by pugworthy »

jandrese wrote: post #108

IMHO the state of the charging network is a major disincentive against buying any CCS equipped EV in the US. Fortunately over the next couple of years every company is switching to NACS and will in theory be able to use Tesla's charging network. This is not great news for the cars bought this year or next though, it would be like buying Betamax.

If all the adoption does is mean you can use Tesla chargers, that's not a great positive. If existing stations upgrade the plug it doesn't make the charging station any more reliable or the payment system any better.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#142

Post by katbyte »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #43
taylodl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets at the core as to why I've not (yet) bought an EV - it's absolutely insane that my car purchase dictates the people I have to associate with for refueling. As you point out - I would never buy a car having the stipulation I could only refuel at Chevron stations. I'll stick with my dino juice so long as Tesla is the only viable option available for recharging. I'd think about getting an EV for a local commut…

99% of the charging is at home anyway. People fixate too much on the public charge options (unless you are driving hundreds of miles a day, in which case the public chargers brands are probably the least of your worries).

Unless you don’t own a home/live in a house. Apartments do not have a charger for every parking stall generally

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#143

Post by lostlogin »

aidenn0 wrote: post #99

The payment thing just boggles my mind. I've been paying at card readers at a gas pump for 20 years now and exactly once did it not work. It's the one thing that has been completely solved in industry, and it doesn't work with EVs.

I think that they are so close to broken to start with, they can’t get worse.

The UI for vouchers, the stupid locations of the buttons and the advertising. It was this crap that had me get an EV.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#144

Post by arcanemachiner »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #127

Same in Germany. So many broken chargers for weeks. Read through the article, but I still don't know why so many are broken and stay broken, it says "So what was wrong with these particular machines? It could be one of many things—a broken part, a power issue, a defective connector." I don't need an article to answer why are chargers broken if the answer is "Could be one of many things, ...". Why are gasoline station…

> Why are gasoline stations mostly never broken and chargers broken all the time?

I mean... One of these technologies does have a 100 year head start on the other.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#145

Post by simfree »

m_fayer wrote: post #39
taylodl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets at the core as to why I've not (yet) bought an EV - it's absolutely insane that my car purchase dictates the people I have to associate with for refueling. As you point out - I would never buy a car having the stipulation I could only refuel at Chevron stations. I'll stick with my dino juice so long as Tesla is the only viable option available for recharging. I'd think about getting an EV for a local commut…

I think a used Nissan Leaf from 2020 or so can be had for a reasonable price for this purpose right now. Depending where you are of course.

Buying a recently manufactured Leaf today is buying technical debt for no good reason. Stuck with a Chademo charging port that has a shrinking installed infrastructure base, an interior that hasn't been significantly upgraded in many years, and a heating system that is sabotaged to the most inefficient heating possible, electric strip heating unless you buy the top SV Plus trim.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#147

Post by matrix_overload »

testfoobar wrote: post #100

Anyone work on EV chargers? Other than cable damage or mechanical damage to the plugs, there are no moving parts. So what specifically inside is likely to stop functioning or needs regular repairs/replacement/maintenance?

Heat. Your typical 150kW fast charging is like 3 houses with 200A service all maxed out. Or 25 houses running at typical load. If you want to convert it from 240V AC to 340-360V DC (actual voltage goes up as the battery charges), you will need a massive cooling system. For a quick perspective, imagine 1500 laptop chargers working all at once!

Getting it into the vehicle is another thing. 150kW at 360V is about 400A - twice what a modern detached house gets. That needs to get into the vehicle through a relatively flexible cable with a connector. IIRC, that requires an active cooling system (i.e. water loop) inside the cable itself, and the connector will still go through massive temperature swings. So you need materials that can insulate against 400V, bend well, and not crack when you repeatedly heat and cool them several times a day.

Oh, and many chargers [0] don't actually have a 150A or whatever connection to the grid, and instead use internal batteries that load up when nobody is charging, and quickly empty into your car once you pullup to it. That's another cooling loop, extra sensors, and possibly, a heating system, if you want to operate in winter conditions.

[0] https://freewiretech.com/dc-boost-charger/

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#148

Post by pugworthy »

snapetom wrote: post #29
brianwawok wrote: post #2

And in the over 100 Tesla chargers I have visited, I think maybe 1 was broken and not labeled. Good news is Tesla standard is coming to most car brands. Bad news is it's not here yet.

It's not the standard that made it reliable for you, it's the company that made/maintained the chargers. The vast majority of these companies are shitty, fly-by-night companies that can't scale up to maintain their network.

Right. It could be 220 outlets that I can plug my own charger in for all I care - just make them work all the time.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#149

Post by lmm »

smileysteve wrote: post #117
marssaxman wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot imagine having to install an app just to use a car charger. What a nuisance!

But what about gas? Race track, loves, shell. They all offer gasoline discounts if you have their app.

But, crucially, you can ignore all that and just pay with a plain card, or even cash if you want. EVs need to match that.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#150

Post by bdamm »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #140
killingtime74 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is solved by Tesla... You just drive up to a supercharger and plug in. No apps nothing.

You have your car registered with Tesla one way or the other to accomplish that. I’m totally willing to do that for bpm CCS EV, but I guess this will just be a convenience for NACS.

NACS is actually just CCS over the Tesla physical form. Hopefully Tesla is mandating and certifying a specific subset of CCS for their Supercharger rollout of NACS.
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