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The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

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Re: The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

#221
post #212
post #210

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Azure networking has been FPGA-based for years.

Yup. Started as project catapult: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/project-cat...

Catapult is awesome. It's what got me excited about FPGAs when I was in undergrad

Re: The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

#222
post #220

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The only three are Samsung, Intel, and TSMC. Idk why going on with Intel but Samsung should BSs doing better but that institutional knowledge that TSMC has is crazy. They all technically invest in asml that makes the machines. If I had to redo my education I’d get into electrical engineering just for this.

> If I had to redo my education I’d get into electrical engineering just for this. This is the crazy thing. Such fundamental important technology but salaries generally suck. Much more money in cat memes and influencer channels.

Yeah the salaries for EEs are really depressing in most of the industry. It's really hard work. Most EEs end up leaving for software or research (I did!).

Re: The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

#223
post #213

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More like ASML is solving the physics problems and TSMC is the one with the most capital and experience to run their EUV machines. It’s not that other competitors don’t exist, it’s more like they’ve given up or can’t keep up. Global foundations I believe isn’t making the investment past 16nm. Samsungs latest node doesn’t perform as good as TSMC and intel is being intel.

No. I don’t know where this oft-repeated semiconductor meme came from, but it’s a really poor take. ASML are solving a small subset of physics problems: how to project extremely small features. TSMC are solving many more physics problems: how to structure layers of doped silicon into transistors, how to structure those transistors into logic gates, and those logic gates into functional blocks. This is why silicon pro…

Yeah I love how people thinks it's easy to mass produce designs that take hundreds of individual steps and weeks for a single wafer to go through the process. 50+ Layers, aligned at the (sub?) nanometer level. Trying to tweak the process so that your electrons stop quantum tunneling across layers in all directions.

Re: The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

#224
post #216

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How would China do that exactly? None of their bombers have sufficient range.

They have intercontinental ballistic missiles. If needed, they can be retrofitted with non-nuclear payload.

China launching any kind of missile at ASML is WW3

Re: The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

#225

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It blows my mind that not only are Apple, Nvidia, and all other enormous "chip makers" fabless... but there's ONE single company actually making the majority of all their chips. Why aren't any other companies entering this space? TSMC's growth and profits are immense, it's not like the market couldn't bear more competitors. Also, the current situation is geopolitical insanity. It feels like China and the U.S. are on…

Why doesn't anyone enter? It takes billions and billions of dollars, tons of knowledge and if you get it wrong...even Intel screwed it up, and they are one of the only companies would could even try to do it.

[dead]

Re: The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

#226

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It's insanely hard. TSMC is so dominant because they have very, very, deep institutional knowledge. Even if you have billions to invest it's not easy to create that, and definitely impossible to do it short term. There's only 3 companies left chasing smaller nodes. Everyone else has given up and are focusing on revenue from high volume parts in older processes.

The only three are Samsung, Intel, and TSMC. Idk why going on with Intel but Samsung should BSs doing better but that institutional knowledge that TSMC has is crazy. They all technically invest in asml that makes the machines. If I had to redo my education I’d get into electrical engineering just for this.

There is one more player joining that small club, Huawei

Re: The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like ASML is solving the physics problems and TSMC is the one with the most capital and experience to run their EUV machines. It’s not that other competitors don’t exist, it’s more like they’ve given up or can’t keep up. Global foundations I believe isn’t making the investment past 16nm. Samsungs latest node doesn’t perform as good as TSMC and intel is being intel.

> Global foundations I believe isn’t making the investment past 16nm. GlobalFoundries' Fab 1 can do 1 nm, and its Fab 8 is capable of doing 14 nm: > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=GlobalFoundries&o...

1 nm is very impressive.

Re: The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

#228

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The USA would certainly bomb it if they had to

And, If china bombs ASML we'll be back to stone age.

No, you'll just have to learn how to write software again.

Re: The first two custom silicon chips designed by Microsoft for its cloud

#230
post #23

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nVidia still has the monopoly on training. Everyone else is just making chips for inference.

Shouldn't inference be 99.999% of the compute cost over time? Especially for MS. Look how many Copilots they are cramming into their products

Upfront, training costs 1000x more than inference - about 0.01/token vs 0.01/1000 tokens. But considering the user base size and the size of the training set - 15T tokens for GPT-4, I estimate the total inference cost becomes equal to training at around 10K tokens/user/month and 100M users.
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