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I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

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Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#101

Post by [deleted] »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #97
xrd wrote: post #23

A few months back I had to go to Palm Beach for work. It was right when Miami was flooding. That's over two hours away. But, the Port Everglades, which is where the tankers unload, was flooded too, and even up in Palm Beach there was no gas. I drove in there with low fuel, thinking it wouldn't be an issue since I was so far north. But, then couldn't find gas at all the next day, and driving around and seeing tons of…

> But, with electric, you are not only looking for a working charger, but one that isn't in use. Or like, a 120v plug anywhere at someone who has electricity? That's a lot more ubiquitous than a gas station.

[deleted]

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#102

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

tw04 wrote: post #70
snapetom wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the standard that made it reliable for you, it's the company that made/maintained the chargers. The vast majority of these companies are shitty, fly-by-night companies that can't scale up to maintain their network.

> The vast majority of these companies are shitty, fly-by-night companies that can't scale up to maintain their network. They really aren’t, it just turns out it’s a hard problem. Electrify America was founded by vw as part of the diesel gate settlement. ChargePoint has been around for almost a decade. Then there are a bunch of OEMs producing chargers for the likes of gas station chains and automobile mfgs. About the…

> > The vast majority of these companies are shitty, fly-by-night companies that can't scale up to maintain their network.

> They really aren’t, it just turns out it’s a hard problem. Electrify America was founded by vw as part of the diesel gate settlement.

Except your sentence there exactly explains why Electrify America is probably the network people love to hate on the most (myself included given the number of times I've visited non-functioning EA chargers), while the Supercharger network is leaps and bounds more reliable.

Electrify America was essentially forced into existence as punishment to VW because of dieselgate. Which means it's not surprising that the folks in charge of EA had very little motivation to provide a stellar experience. Contrast this with Tesla, who sees the Supercharger network as an integral part of their business of selling cars.

As the owner of a non-Tesla EV who loves my car but is very wary of 3rd party charging networks, you really have to hand it to Tesla for their work in building out the Supercharger network. They had the foresight to realize how critically important a good charging network would be, so much so that they are now able to dictate the "North America Charging Standard" (which given the history of how that name came about takes a ton of chutzpah, but that's a discussion for another post...) for the rest of the automakers - basically all the other EV makers have announced transitions to NACS.

So, yes, it may be debatable to call the other charging networks "fly-by-night" companies, but I'll definitely agree with the "shitty" aspect. There are just tons and tons and tons of non-functioning chargers, and the comparison with the reliability of Superchargers is extremely stark.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#103

Post by sbierwagen »

snapetom wrote: post #46

I have now rented two electric vehicles this past year, both for semi-long distance trips. The first was a Kia from SF to Sacramento, and back a few days later, thinking this was California and it should be fine. I tried to use twelve stations and seven were broken/out of order for various reasons. I was so shocked about the sad state of affairs on this, I logged/blogged it. The problems were pretty much like the art…

>On top of the shortage was Hertz's botched EV initiative, so there was only one Chevy Volt available

The Chevy Volt, a plug in hybrid discontinued four years ago, or the Chevy Bolt, an electric vehicle?

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#104

Post by bdcravens »

I drove from Houston to San Diego and back a year ago in my EV6, limiting myself to Electrify America chargers (as I had 1000KW credit, and they seemed to be the only option close to the freeway). It was fine, though most locations had around 1/4 of the stalls inoperable.

In the last year, the EA locations here in Houston have been terrible, with many stalls broken or in low-speed maintenance mode. (Thankfully I charge at home most of the time)

I drove from Houston to Dallas and back this weekend, the first time I've done a road trip since last year. All of the EA spots seemed to be in much better shape than in Houston. I'm guessing EA allocates more resources to keep those going, given the criticality for drivers in those locations.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#105

Post by jandrese »

parineum wrote: post #88
tw04 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize EA isn’t making their own chargers, and sources their chargers from multiple vendors, right? https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/21 > Reston, VA (April 17, 2018) – Electrify America announced today it has selected key charging equipment suppliers – ABB, BTC Power, Efacec and Signet – to jointly deploy its new ultra-fast electric vehicle (EV) charging systems throughout the United States.

Yes, that's _exactly_ the issue. When they need to service a station, they need just the right parts. That's also from 2018. There a lot of chargers built before then. I read an article not too long ago where the new CEO was explaining that the reliability issue is, essentially, they rushed to get the first generations of chargers out so fast that they had to source parts from everywhere and they weren't all well tes…

Contrast this with Tesla who built everything in-house and has an exceptional service record with their charging network. Vertical integration has its perks.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#106

Post by bdcravens »

aidenn0 wrote: post #99

The payment thing just boggles my mind. I've been paying at card readers at a gas pump for 20 years now and exactly once did it not work. It's the one thing that has been completely solved in industry, and it doesn't work with EVs.

I've run into more failures than that at gas pumps, but it is mostly rare like you say. However in almost all cases, they're on the same network as the gas station POS, and I assume hard-wired. The card readers I see at EV spots seem to less durable, similar to the card readers you see on vending machines. I bet they mostly are using cellular to communicate.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#107

Post by bdcravens »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #97
xrd wrote: post #23

A few months back I had to go to Palm Beach for work. It was right when Miami was flooding. That's over two hours away. But, the Port Everglades, which is where the tankers unload, was flooded too, and even up in Palm Beach there was no gas. I drove in there with low fuel, thinking it wouldn't be an issue since I was so far north. But, then couldn't find gas at all the next day, and driving around and seeing tons of…

> But, with electric, you are not only looking for a working charger, but one that isn't in use. Or like, a 120v plug anywhere at someone who has electricity? That's a lot more ubiquitous than a gas station.

Yes, but as the commenter pointed out, it would take a significant amount of time.

> I'm not joking. If I plugged in the cable I carry in the back of my car, it would have taken 8-12 hours to charge up to the full 18 miles I get on my car.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#108

Post by jandrese »

IMHO the state of the charging network is a major disincentive against buying any CCS equipped EV in the US. Fortunately over the next couple of years every company is switching to NACS and will in theory be able to use Tesla's charging network. This is not great news for the cars bought this year or next though, it would be like buying Betamax.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#109

Post by bdcravens »

zerbinxx wrote: post #41

fwiw there’s a ton of upcoming (and heavily debated/not yet implemented/understood) regulations around EV chargers that will absolutely nuke some of the shittier app-centric/not really functional charging systems that people rely on today. I’m not a Tesla fan per se, but it is remarkable how much better life is for Tesla owners vs. the huddled masses roaming the frozen wastes looking for a charger that can actually d…

I chose a non-Tesla specifically (even canceling a Model 3 order I had), but the network is definitely better for them. Fortunately, many manufacturers are moving to the Tesla standard in the coming years (and Tesla has a limited number of chargers that have CCS plugs)

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#110

Post by darknavi »

aidenn0 wrote: post #99

The payment thing just boggles my mind. I've been paying at card readers at a gas pump for 20 years now and exactly once did it not work. It's the one thing that has been completely solved in industry, and it doesn't work with EVs.

Not to excuse it but most gas pumps I've been too are in covered areas where as EV chargers are not normally.

Card readers surely should be weather resistant but EV chargers could use more cover.

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