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I accidentally a scheme

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Re: I accidentally a scheme

#131

Post by bigfishrunning »

TylerE wrote: post #22
cfiggers wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's literally dozens of us! If you're serious about learning a Lisp but motivated more by, as you say, "having more fun" rather than, say, landing a six-figure job writing it professionally... then may I recommend Janet[0] for your consideration. Janet is an embeddably-small, yet surprisingly batteries-included Lisp implemented in pure C. In terms of syntax and core library it borrows more directly from Clojure t…

Ooh that's actually really interesting. I've always been a bit into lisp... even did a bit of amatuer CL back in the day..but always thought the distribution model of basically a memory dump was just the worst of all possible worlds.

I agree with this sentiment -- from a reproducability standpoint, CL images aren't great. My workflow has always been to maintain a source file and then use emacs to shove s-expressions into the repl -- that way, rather then save the image, i can just re-evaluate my source file and get a reasonable facsimile

Re: I accidentally a scheme

#132

Post by tmtvl »

ookdatnog wrote: post #121
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #16

Note to self: learn a lisp. Lisp people appear to be having more fun than the rest of us.

I haven't done any serious lisping outside of tutorials and books, but I warmly recommend the wizard book of myth and legend, SICP ( https://mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/b... ). I had a lot of fun working through it.

Remember to watch the video lectures.

Re: I accidentally a scheme

#133

Post by bigfishrunning »

LocalH wrote: post #67
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #16

Note to self: learn a lisp. Lisp people appear to be having more fun than the rest of us.

Does modding a game that uses a bespoke Lispish scripting language count?

Yes! All you have to do to make a lisp is to make a thing and call it a lisp. Lists are recommended, but optional.

Re: I accidentally a scheme

#134

Post by kagevf »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #97
defenestration wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, good to hear. I also did this for nights on end. My strategy was to try to solve the puzzle myself first (in a reasonable amount of time) and then check the solutions of others. Always fun to see if I could make my solution faster/shorter/more elegant/etc. with the inspiration of the other solutions.

What are the odds that someone gets accused of plagiarism for doing exactly that? Like, say there's a perfect solution in existence with the fewest lines/tokens of code all the elegant shortcuts and maybe a little bit of "sorcery", how likely is it for two people to work their way down the perfect solution and it basically looks exactly the same, maybe they followed the same logical workflow to arrive there, who know…

I don't know what the odds are of getting accused, but let's say this was in the context of an interview question, and every answer submitted looks almost 100% the same, or even more telling, has the same logic mistakes, then the odds could be high that plagiarism is afoot.

Re: I accidentally a scheme

#135

Post by [deleted] »

TylerE wrote: post #22
cfiggers wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's literally dozens of us! If you're serious about learning a Lisp but motivated more by, as you say, "having more fun" rather than, say, landing a six-figure job writing it professionally... then may I recommend Janet[0] for your consideration. Janet is an embeddably-small, yet surprisingly batteries-included Lisp implemented in pure C. In terms of syntax and core library it borrows more directly from Clojure t…

Ooh that's actually really interesting. I've always been a bit into lisp... even did a bit of amatuer CL back in the day..but always thought the distribution model of basically a memory dump was just the worst of all possible worlds.

[deleted]

Re: I accidentally a scheme

#136

Post by kevindamm »

brainbag wrote: post #87
farmdve wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to login to HN which I have not done in many months just to say this to the young generation. The title is from a meme. Like before the memes of today, when a meme was an image around a black frame with white text. It usually goes "I accidentally a ".

Until I read all the way down here to the bottom of the comment thread, I was thinking about the older people who didn't get this reference since I've been hearing it for decades. But now I see, thanks to your comment, that it is I that is the old one, and it's the youngsters that don't know it.

[flagged]

Re: I accidentally a scheme

#137

Post by Obscurity4340 »

kagevf wrote: post #134
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the odds that someone gets accused of plagiarism for doing exactly that? Like, say there's a perfect solution in existence with the fewest lines/tokens of code all the elegant shortcuts and maybe a little bit of "sorcery", how likely is it for two people to work their way down the perfect solution and it basically looks exactly the same, maybe they followed the same logical workflow to arrive there, who know…

I don't know what the odds are of getting accused, but let's say this was in the context of an interview question, and every answer submitted looks almost 100% the same, or even more telling, has the same logic mistakes, then the odds could be high that plagiarism is afoot.

Say there's no mistakes. Its literally perfectly logical and conventionally written code. Its the epitome of that thing with Michaelangelo where he assumes his vision for the sculpture is correct and all he needs to do is surgically remove the excess marble to get to the essential form that is perfect and ideal and intutitive.

Re: I accidentally a scheme

#138

Post by thaumasiotes »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #71
thaumasiotes wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (and I love English for how you can just verb or noun anything - it's like Lisp of natural languages!) This is an odd observation. All languages have derivation. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphological_derivation ) English has zero-derivation of verbs [that is, the form of the derived verb is identical to the form of the word from which the verb was derived], and this construction is highly productive; many p…

I'm speaking more about language culture, as it's used. My native language, Polish, allows for convenient derivation, but it's not a natural thing to do, and if you try, people will look at you funny. In English, it feels very natural and people will understand you when you do it.

> My native language, Polish, allows for convenient derivation, but it's not a natural thing to do, and if you try, people will look at you funny.

Cultural differences do crop up. The Romans mostly believed that if you wanted to talk about philosophy, you had to do it in Greek; there is a speech preserved from Cicero in which he complains about this belief and gives several examples of how it's possible to say the same things in Latin by using parallel derivational mechanisms. Construction of new words from roots was common in Greek and unusual in Latin.

Re: I accidentally a scheme

#139

Post by kazinator »

carapace wrote: post #114
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #16

Note to self: learn a lisp. Lisp people appear to be having more fun than the rest of us.

One great way to learn Lisp is to write your own: > The goal of the Make-A-Lisp project is to make it easy to write your own Lisp interpreter without sacrificing those many "Aha!" moments that come from ascending the McCarthy mountain. When you reach the peak of this particular mountain, you will have an interpreter for the mal Lisp language that is powerful enough to be self-hosting, meaning it will be able to run a…

If you don't know Lisp, and start writing your own, you're only learning your own concoction, and not any other Lisp. And that concoction has its limits. It doesn't compare to the breadth and scope of the Lisp culture.

Interacting only with something you have made is the worst possible way to learn anything about existing, mainstream Lisp.

Not knowing anything about the prior art will practically ensure that your own thing is a collection of quirks specific to it, and that then ensures that your Lisp knowledge is entirely rooted in and limited to that thing.

You're just not going to single-handedly reinvent things that took numerous hackers over several generations to figure out. You may be "good", but so were they, and there is only one of you.

You will not even be able to converse with actual Lisp people, due to not having the right concepts and terms.

Re: I accidentally a scheme

#140

Post by carapace »

kazinator wrote: post #139
carapace wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One great way to learn Lisp is to write your own: > The goal of the Make-A-Lisp project is to make it easy to write your own Lisp interpreter without sacrificing those many "Aha!" moments that come from ascending the McCarthy mountain. When you reach the peak of this particular mountain, you will have an interpreter for the mal Lisp language that is powerful enough to be self-hosting, meaning it will be able to run a…

If you don't know Lisp, and start writing your own, you're only learning your own concoction, and not any other Lisp. And that concoction has its limits. It doesn't compare to the breadth and scope of the Lisp culture. Interacting only with something you have made is the worst possible way to learn anything about existing, mainstream Lisp. Not knowing anything about the prior art will practically ensure that your own…

Are you criticizing the MAL project or just offering general advice?

I feel MAL does a decent job illustrating the core concepts of Lisp, but then I'm not a Lisp expert by any means.

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