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I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

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Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#61

Post by ukd1 »

snapetom wrote: post #46

I have now rented two electric vehicles this past year, both for semi-long distance trips. The first was a Kia from SF to Sacramento, and back a few days later, thinking this was California and it should be fine. I tried to use twelve stations and seven were broken/out of order for various reasons. I was so shocked about the sad state of affairs on this, I logged/blogged it. The problems were pretty much like the art…

Try renting a Tesla next time; the network for charging is great, and I think I've only ever had one failure in years, and just moved stalls.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#62

Post by thejazzman »

ukd1 wrote: post #54
taylodl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets at the core as to why I've not (yet) bought an EV - it's absolutely insane that my car purchase dictates the people I have to associate with for refueling. As you point out - I would never buy a car having the stipulation I could only refuel at Chevron stations. I'll stick with my dino juice so long as Tesla is the only viable option available for recharging. I'd think about getting an EV for a local commut…

I think you're mis-informed. Teslas can easily charge at other branded recharging stations; mostly you never see it as there is no point. The Tesla ones are good. There are adaptors to all / most public charging stations for cheap. I keep a few, and my wall-charger (for 120/220v outlets) in the front-trunk. Non-Teslas charging at Tesla stations is new/not really a thing though.

Not to mention that EV owners charge at their house overnight 99% of the time so the notion that you have to use "one brand" is a gross misunderstanding

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#63

Post by julienchastang »

Happy EV owner here (Nissan Leaf), but I can confirm the charging network is a disaster:

- Hard to use charging interfaces where you have to arrive to the station with an account already set up. Why can't you simply use your credit card like you do at a gas station?! (The article addresses this, but still…)

- Spotty density (sometimes near, sometimes far) of charging stations.

- Unreliable charging stations where you feel like it is a minor miracle when they actually work.

I almost never use the charging network opting to charge at home. For out of EV range trips, I use my hybrid.

Until EVs are cheaper than ICE vehicles, have the range of an ICE vehicle, and can be charged at the same rate as it takes to fill a tank of gas in a completely reliable manner, I don't really see widespread adoption of EVs in the US. On the other hand, sales of hybrid vehicles in the US are strong [0]

[0] https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/electric-vehicle-buyer-in...

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#64

Post by dylan604 »

mayama wrote: post #27
dylan604 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The systems definitely have a method to communicate for payments, they should add a button to report issues with charger. Of course it's ripe for the button being pressed randomly, but I'm sure there's a smart person that can automate the messages received to catch that. But at least it would provide a possible mechanism to have frustrated users report these unattended units

It is more of installers/maintainers not interested in fixing the chargers. They would already have information about how much is being payed for each charger and from that would know some charger is broken.

I'm sure the installers/maintainers are not the blame here though. Of course they'd like to get paid for doing it. It's the owners of the equipment that don't want to pay for the maintenance. Let's place the blame at the appropriate feet here.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#65

Post by ukd1 »

thejazzman wrote: post #62
ukd1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're mis-informed. Teslas can easily charge at other branded recharging stations; mostly you never see it as there is no point. The Tesla ones are good. There are adaptors to all / most public charging stations for cheap. I keep a few, and my wall-charger (for 120/220v outlets) in the front-trunk. Non-Teslas charging at Tesla stations is new/not really a thing though.

Not to mention that EV owners charge at their house overnight 99% of the time so the notion that you have to use "one brand" is a gross misunderstanding

True. I installed a L2 charger for <$1k all in, and basically only charge once, maybe twice a week at $0.115/kwh. Superchargers are generally $0.33-60/kwh.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#66

Post by snapetom »

ukd1 wrote: post #61
snapetom wrote: post #46

I have now rented two electric vehicles this past year, both for semi-long distance trips. The first was a Kia from SF to Sacramento, and back a few days later, thinking this was California and it should be fine. I tried to use twelve stations and seven were broken/out of order for various reasons. I was so shocked about the sad state of affairs on this, I logged/blogged it. The problems were pretty much like the art…

Try renting a Tesla next time; the network for charging is great, and I think I've only ever had one failure in years, and just moved stalls.

Thanks but no thanks. Nothing against Teslas, but the issue is that reality is far from the vision proposed by proponents of EVs including governments and entrepreneurs. EVs are not reliable for long journeys.

Besides, I don't like vendor lock-in in my software, I don't like vendor lock-in for my cars.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#67

Post by kj4ips »

kristjansson wrote: post #50
thesuitonym wrote: post #12

The main thing about these chargers is that nobody is monitoring them. At a gas station, an attendant is usually less than 20 feet away, and if anyone has a problem, they come talk to that person immediately. That attendant usually can't fix the problem on their own, but they can take steps to get it fixed quickly. By contrast, electric charging stations are typically at the far end of a vast sea of parking. There's…

Given the business model for gas stations (~%0 on the gas, huge on the mini-mart) it seems kinda ridiculous they're not rushing to put fast chargers in every station.

You pretty much need three-phase service availability to install one, and a lot of C-stores don't have access to that.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#68

Post by Eggpants »

What I don’t understand is why car dealerships haven’t jumped at this opportunity by giving up some parking spots for charging stations. They already have a lounge areas, have displayed cars for folks to consider, and many have some kind of snack bar. Add a cut of the charging fee and you a consistent revenue stream.

Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken

#70

Post by tw04 »

snapetom wrote: post #29
brianwawok wrote: post #2

And in the over 100 Tesla chargers I have visited, I think maybe 1 was broken and not labeled. Good news is Tesla standard is coming to most car brands. Bad news is it's not here yet.

It's not the standard that made it reliable for you, it's the company that made/maintained the chargers. The vast majority of these companies are shitty, fly-by-night companies that can't scale up to maintain their network.

> The vast majority of these companies are shitty, fly-by-night companies that can't scale up to maintain their network.

They really aren’t, it just turns out it’s a hard problem. Electrify America was founded by vw as part of the diesel gate settlement.

ChargePoint has been around for almost a decade.

Then there are a bunch of OEMs producing chargers for the likes of gas station chains and automobile mfgs.

About the only place you’ll find fly-by-night nobody’s is in the home charging space and even those are few and far between.

It takes a LOT of capital to build a charging network.

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