fwiw there’s a ton of upcoming (and heavily debated/not yet implemented/understood) regulations around EV chargers that will absolutely nuke some of the shittier app-centric/not really functional charging systems that people rely on today. I’m not a Tesla fan per se, but it is remarkable how much better life is for Tesla owners vs. the huddled masses roaming the frozen wastes looking for a charger that can actually dispense a charge or provide users with some useful error feedback.
I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
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Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
#42I had a Spark EV with CCS connector and charged around the Bay Area many times. Apparently my model of car had design issues with the connector and half the time I'd have to try a different charging station. I mostly charged at home but this was annoying when doing local road trips. Currently renting an Ioniq 5 in Florida (cost barely more than a petrol vehicle). Aside from a lack of L3 chargers near Indian Shores, t…
Yeah, it's pretty clear Tesla is still the best EV experience. I'm just waiting till the next gen of EVs to have proper connectors before I will consider another one. Our model Y is fine, but I don't want to buy another vehicle from them with Musk at the helm, and they don't plan to have a regular pickup anyways.
Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Relying on a single company seems like bad news to me. Imagine if your car could only refuel at Chevron stations. I get it that other charging networks also have the NACS connector. But if the argument is that they are unrealiable and people shouldn't bother, then Tesla will be the only game in town.
This gets at the core as to why I've not (yet) bought an EV - it's absolutely insane that my car purchase dictates the people I have to associate with for refueling. As you point out - I would never buy a car having the stipulation I could only refuel at Chevron stations. I'll stick with my dino juice so long as Tesla is the only viable option available for recharging. I'd think about getting an EV for a local commut…
99% of the charging is at home anyway. People fixate too much on the public charge options (unless you are driving hundreds of miles a day, in which case the public chargers brands are probably the least of your worries).
Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
#44A few months back I had to go to Palm Beach for work. It was right when Miami was flooding. That's over two hours away. But, the Port Everglades, which is where the tankers unload, was flooded too, and even up in Palm Beach there was no gas. I drove in there with low fuel, thinking it wouldn't be an issue since I was so far north. But, then couldn't find gas at all the next day, and driving around and seeing tons of…
I guess, downvoted because you dared share an anecdote about how vulnerable EVs are in certain circumstances?
It seems like people will have to relearn the hard way just why gasoline is probably the best energy storage medium ever invented.
Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue is maintaining already installed chargers. Lot of chargers are either physically broken or rated for low charging rate because something inside is broken. And no one fixing it in months. Changing the connector won't fix the issue when chargers are not fixed for months on end.
People, especially techie types here on HN, tend to simply forget or not know to begin with just how many service technicians and laborers are necessary to keep all this tech running. Just because you can imagine it does not mean it's possible, folks.
The problem really is the companies. EA essentially rushed their product out the door knowingly with substandard (both in quality and actual standardization) that's led to their issues.
They are simply not built to last and their bespokeness leads them to be difficult to repair.
This isn't a case of oversimplifying, especially considering we can look across the street at a company who is doing exactly what we're asking for.
Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
#46I have now rented two electric vehicles this past year, both for semi-long distance trips.
The first was a Kia from SF to Sacramento, and back a few days later, thinking this was California and it should be fine. I tried to use twelve stations and seven were broken/out of order for various reasons. I was so shocked about the sad state of affairs on this, I logged/blogged it. The problems were pretty much like the article:
1) Generally out of order message or off for some unknown reason. 2) One had a blatant electrical problem where it charged and then stopped as soon as I walked away. Thinking I was charged, but wasn't. 3) Appear to work, but the payment system was out of order. 4) One was on, but the UI was completely unresponsive. Worker at the business said, "It hasn't been working for almost a year now." 5) App didn't work. Generally, all apps in this space suck bad. Whether it's finding stations or the actual vendor, they are all slow and clunky at best with terrible UIs.
The second was a trip from Boston to central Connecticut and back last month. There was a shortage of cars in the city. Logan was out of cars and I had to go to a neighborhood rental on the outskirts. On top of the shortage was Hertz's botched EV initiative, so there was only one Chevy Volt available at 33% charge.
This experience was even worse. Again, over half the stations I encountered were broken for the same reasons. On top of that, there was essentially just one supercharging station on I-95 from Central CT to Boston, which I missed. It took me three hours because I had to preserve enough charge to make it back to Logan and take my flight out. By the time I got to the Boston Tunnel, the car went into "limited propulsion mode." I fully expected to die in the tunnel on a Friday evening and miss my flight.
The whole thing reminded me that charging stations are complex machines with a myriad of things that can go wrong. On top of that, all these companies are startups who concentrate on growth and marketshare instead of creating an actual reliable usable product. 99% of people can't name one of these companies, and being the best, most trusted charging company is not the goal.
I'm not renting an electric vehicle for a long time. The best use case would be within a city, and unless I'm purposely driving all over a city, I might as well just take public transportation or uber.
Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
#47And in the over 100 Tesla chargers I have visited, I think maybe 1 was broken and not labeled. Good news is Tesla standard is coming to most car brands. Bad news is it's not here yet.
What do you mean the Tesla standard is coming to most brands? I was under the impression that Tesla is introducing new stations that have CCS chargers. Either with multiple cables or an adapter. You start the station using the Tesla mobile app. It’s in beta available in certain locations
It's actually both, at least in the US.
Tesla has the "Magic Dock", which is the built-in CCS adapter that unlocks when you use the app with a non-Tesla car. This is rolling out in a few places.
The other thing is that "NACS" (North American Charging Standard, the same physical plug that Teslas use but with the CCS protocol, with some minor backwards compatible changes for optional higher voltages) is being adopted by almost every EV brand, beginning ~2025. Further, these same brands have committed to providing or selling NACS-CCS adapters to existing cars so they can use Tesla chargers, even without buying a new model of car.
Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
This gets at the core as to why I've not (yet) bought an EV - it's absolutely insane that my car purchase dictates the people I have to associate with for refueling. As you point out - I would never buy a car having the stipulation I could only refuel at Chevron stations. I'll stick with my dino juice so long as Tesla is the only viable option available for recharging. I'd think about getting an EV for a local commut…
I think a used Nissan Leaf from 2020 or so can be had for a reasonable price for this purpose right now. Depending where you are of course.
For some definition of "reasonable" I guess. Are they under $4k? That's about my limit for what I spend on a car. I have good luck finding reliable ICE vehicles in that price range.
Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
This gets at the core as to why I've not (yet) bought an EV - it's absolutely insane that my car purchase dictates the people I have to associate with for refueling. As you point out - I would never buy a car having the stipulation I could only refuel at Chevron stations. I'll stick with my dino juice so long as Tesla is the only viable option available for recharging. I'd think about getting an EV for a local commut…
The funny thing is that electrical charging isn't fully standardized, but somehow hydrocarbons are.
This will require government regulation, which won't happen until there are enough angry EV drivers to get political attention, and then enough political will to overcome the corporate lobbyists fighting standardization. Remember standardization is good for consumers and bad for producers. Look how long it took to force apple to use usb-c chargers.
Re: I visited over 120 EV chargers: why so many were broken
#50The main thing about these chargers is that nobody is monitoring them. At a gas station, an attendant is usually less than 20 feet away, and if anyone has a problem, they come talk to that person immediately. That attendant usually can't fix the problem on their own, but they can take steps to get it fixed quickly. By contrast, electric charging stations are typically at the far end of a vast sea of parking. There's…
Given the business model for gas stations (~%0 on the gas, huge on the mini-mart) it seems kinda ridiculous they're not rushing to put fast chargers in every station.