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The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

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Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#11
I think we already give Github far too much influence over the free software world without also paying attention to who they see fit to hand awards to.

I wonder whether Github would have considered the PSF to be "wonderfully welcoming" if they hadn't switched from their self-hosted bug tracker to Github's offering last year.

Personally I don't find being asked to read [1] before I can submit a bug report at all welcoming.

[1] https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t...

Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#12
post #8

I feel like the governments of the world need to put resources into some of these major spokes of technology. I know 1B is a lot of money, but the US throws that around. Imagine 1B into python. Nah, don't even imagine that, its too much money. Imagine 50M. I'm somewhat surprised big tech hasnt lobbied for something like this. Maybe they like their silos. Everyone gets a cut, don't shake the boat.

I suspect smart people could fix the nightmare around dependencies and packaging for less than 3M, and the economic gains would be immeasurable.

Agreed[0].

[0] https://python-poetry.org

Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#13
post #11

I think we already give Github far too much influence over the free software world without also paying attention to who they see fit to hand awards to. I wonder whether Github would have considered the PSF to be "wonderfully welcoming" if they hadn't switched from their self-hosted bug tracker to Github's offering last year. Personally I don't find being asked to read [1] before I can submit a bug report at all welco…

Indeed. The fact that nobody seems concerned about Github/Microsoft monopoly is concerning to say the least.

https://ploum.net/2023-02-22-leaving-github.html

Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect smart people could fix the nightmare around dependencies and packaging for less than 3M, and the economic gains would be immeasurable.

Agreed[0]. [0] https://python-poetry.org

cmd -f rust. Nope. C. Nope. Headers. Nope. Meson. Nope.

Poetry doesn't handle the hard part of packaging, which is getting compiled dependencies working on approximately 50 different combinations of platform, architecture, version, and so on.

Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#15
post #11

I think we already give Github far too much influence over the free software world without also paying attention to who they see fit to hand awards to. I wonder whether Github would have considered the PSF to be "wonderfully welcoming" if they hadn't switched from their self-hosted bug tracker to Github's offering last year. Personally I don't find being asked to read [1] before I can submit a bug report at all welco…

> we already give Github far too much influence over the free software

Yup.

I was at GitHub Universe last week. It's very clear GitHub (Microsoft) is trying to become like AWS but for the SDLC instead of for runtime.

Soon we'll all be using GitHub full-time to do all our coding in the browser with integrated runtime envs and CI and AI along for the ride. You get a taste with some fancy OSS demo projects which they do legitimately support. Then you want to integrate with those OSS libraries, so you have to dip your toes into GitHub's ecosystem. And if you want updates and security and to not have public repos ... then time to pony up.

GitHub does support OSS in real ways, but it's pretty obviously a loss-leading marketing / freemium strategy. It's not surprising they give themslves a pat on the back - it's marketing after all. This is not a bad or even amoral thing, but let's not be naive.

They're eating their competitors' lunch. Many of the vendors at GitHub Universe had feature-sets that had clear overlap with GitHub's own ambitions, particularly in the security space. GitHub can and will put them out of business when the opportunity strikes. These ambitions are clear. C'est la vie.

What's less clear is how developer-friendly the ecosystem will remain when everything is locked into GitHub's world,. And it's even less clear how they will ratchet up pricing (or ratchet down interoperability or industry standards) as more gets sucked in.

It is an enterprise B2B company and a part of Microsoft, for better and for worse.

Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#16
post #13
post #11

I think we already give Github far too much influence over the free software world without also paying attention to who they see fit to hand awards to. I wonder whether Github would have considered the PSF to be "wonderfully welcoming" if they hadn't switched from their self-hosted bug tracker to Github's offering last year. Personally I don't find being asked to read [1] before I can submit a bug report at all welco…

Indeed. The fact that nobody seems concerned about Github/Microsoft monopoly is concerning to say the least. https://ploum.net/2023-02-22-leaving-github.html

Really confused why people don't seem to use the term "monopoly" correctly.

Monopoly: the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.

Github does not have in any sense exclusive possession or control of hosted version control. It is a popular choice, that's it.

Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#17
post #11

I think we already give Github far too much influence over the free software world without also paying attention to who they see fit to hand awards to. I wonder whether Github would have considered the PSF to be "wonderfully welcoming" if they hadn't switched from their self-hosted bug tracker to Github's offering last year. Personally I don't find being asked to read [1] before I can submit a bug report at all welco…

This is definitely for marketing purposes only not good will but at least it’s positive

Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#18
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. The fact that nobody seems concerned about Github/Microsoft monopoly is concerning to say the least. https://ploum.net/2023-02-22-leaving-github.html

Really confused why people don't seem to use the term "monopoly" correctly. Monopoly: the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service. Github does not have in any sense exclusive possession or control of hosted version control. It is a popular choice, that's it.

I agree. GitHub is the biggest player, but it's a pretty layer on top of an inherently distributed system. If I get tired of Microsoft's shenanigans, I can pack up move to a competitor with only the normal amount of friction (like moving bug reports over, etc.). I use Gitea for my personal projects and it handles 95% of the code-hosting bits just as well.

Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#19

I feel like the governments of the world need to put resources into some of these major spokes of technology. I know 1B is a lot of money, but the US throws that around. Imagine 1B into python. Nah, don't even imagine that, its too much money. Imagine 50M. I'm somewhat surprised big tech hasnt lobbied for something like this. Maybe they like their silos. Everyone gets a cut, don't shake the boat.

Python is of course a major boon to humanity, but the things that need funding are typically things that corporations aren't using. It's our reliance on private spokes of technology (think: app stores & sales platforms, operating systems, hardware designs, etc) that are major risks to the long-term stability of our society and economy.

Re: The Python Sofware Foundation Receives Wonderfully Welcoming Award from GitHub

#20
post #11

I think we already give Github far too much influence over the free software world without also paying attention to who they see fit to hand awards to. I wonder whether Github would have considered the PSF to be "wonderfully welcoming" if they hadn't switched from their self-hosted bug tracker to Github's offering last year. Personally I don't find being asked to read [1] before I can submit a bug report at all welco…

> we already give Github far too much influence over the free software Yup. I was at GitHub Universe last week. It's very clear GitHub (Microsoft) is trying to become like AWS but for the SDLC instead of for runtime. Soon we'll all be using GitHub full-time to do all our coding in the browser with integrated runtime envs and CI and AI along for the ride. You get a taste with some fancy OSS demo projects which they do…

This isn’t a future I want to support. GitLab, Gitea, and others are going to need some love.
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