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Why do people still use VBA?

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Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#231

Let's face it: IT is the bureaucracy department of modern times which can keep itself 95% busy with self inflicted problems and has 5% service orientation. Processes are opaque for outsiders and typically not helpful. I really had to lough when I read the following description of the IBM BPM but this sums up a good part of the issue: "...while IBM BPM does come with a REST API, this REST API is borderline useless to…

VBA is the ultimate agile programming language. The company's IT aka Bureaucracy Department is stuck with Scrum, Squads and what not. And meanwhile in the other departments people are just getting things done with Excel/VBA. Nothing has changed. In the last century this also happened and it was called islands of automation. In my bubble back then it was considered a good strategy, let departments first play around, a…

I was wondering what would be replacing Excel/VBA after 3 decades as a citizen developer alternative. I could not think of something that even comes close. Any ideas?

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#232
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. My friend automated his whole job in Excel. He supposedly can do a days work in fifteen minutes and then just hang out. Their computers are super locked down, can’t install anything, can’t go to any non-whitelisted sites, but they have Excel.

I always read those “X automated their job, finishes it 15 minutes and then does whatever” and wonder how true are they? How could it be that nobody notices or cares?

100% true. Teams have team-sized work queues. Individuals with unique roles have individual work queues. Benefiting from a faster individual requires solving a similarly large coordination problem across the company for a smaller payoff.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#233
post #226
post #184

– It’s built in. – The IDE is built in. – The syntax is beginner-friendly. – It’s stable and doesn’t change every six month. – It’s well-documented. – No build steps, it just runs, and fast. – It’s resource-efficient (CPU, RAM). – You can easily create dialogs and forms using the built-in visual GUI builder. – You can break into the built-in debugger from your Office document. – If you want to get fancy, it has inter…

Is it still something you can code with your mouse? I remember having to deal with it on my first job because the team knew nothing about coding. They had “recorded” macros by clicking around and never seeing a line of code. It was incredibly brittle: any change to the table, even adding a comment, would break it, but it allowed them to automate a task.

This sort of programming is very powerful. It lets people who have no idea what big O is or how to make a fully automated CI/CD system with testing and all of the bells and whistles just get something done. Just to make a dialog and automate something. That type of programing is very powerful. Many times a huge mess to clean up but very powerful and gets things done. We sometimes lose sight of that. Computers are to get things done. Getting rid of the moat we have build could be very powerful.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#234

VB(A) is like Python. It's not pretty, but it gets the job done. (* if you think it's pretty, it's because you are inexperienced and don't know the many better alternatives *) Any tool with a good ecosystem (tools/libraries/integrations) which allows you to get real work done is useful. Visual Basic as a desktop app development system (or MS Access which added DB benefits) was very useful in a large number of scenari…

Python is no Scheme, but it's definitely pretty as programming languages go and for many cases there are no better alternatives. Based on about 25 years of programming with tens of languages.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#235
post #184

– It’s built in. – The IDE is built in. – The syntax is beginner-friendly. – It’s stable and doesn’t change every six month. – It’s well-documented. – No build steps, it just runs, and fast. – It’s resource-efficient (CPU, RAM). – You can easily create dialogs and forms using the built-in visual GUI builder. – You can break into the built-in debugger from your Office document. – If you want to get fancy, it has inter…

And it's absolutely baked into Microsoft Excel.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#236

Let's face it: IT is the bureaucracy department of modern times which can keep itself 95% busy with self inflicted problems and has 5% service orientation. Processes are opaque for outsiders and typically not helpful. I really had to lough when I read the following description of the IBM BPM but this sums up a good part of the issue: "...while IBM BPM does come with a REST API, this REST API is borderline useless to…

I can find bad examples of how things work in basically every department I chose if I look long enough. Are there IT-Managed things that border on insanity? Oh yes. Are these a good excuse to build a shadow IT? No, they are not. Don't get me wrong: I'm not bothered at all when a couple analysts get together and hack away at their own little tools in VBA. Kudos to them for getting into the spirit of things, and maybe…

You make very good points, but I think you miss the mark on shutting down intent.

You wouldn’t ignore an excel produced by a competent ceo or cfo (those that know all the shortcuts), so why, instead of helping ppl refactor and release their work properly, you gaslight them as incompetent just because they are not IT?

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#237
post #184

– It’s built in. – The IDE is built in. – The syntax is beginner-friendly. – It’s stable and doesn’t change every six month. – It’s well-documented. – No build steps, it just runs, and fast. – It’s resource-efficient (CPU, RAM). – You can easily create dialogs and forms using the built-in visual GUI builder. – You can break into the built-in debugger from your Office document. – If you want to get fancy, it has inter…

VBA serves an awesome niche. I once built an awesome simulator that did some pretty complex optimization stuff. The main sheet had input cells for the user, a couple of radio buttons for toggling certain features, and a button to fire off the built-in Excel solver plugin and pull certain values from that process and display it all on a GUI on the first sheet. It took me just a couple of days despite zero VBA experien…

> button to fire off the built-in Excel solver plugin and pull certain values

That's pretty cool.

VBA is terrific for glue code. Back in the day, before the Internet opened up the security hellmouth, ActiveX was pretty great for use cases like yours.

Early '90s, I made an in-house cost estimation app using Access 2000. It'd extract data from our MicroStation (belch!) CAD drawings to generate budgets and bill of materials. Huge time saver.

Here's a modern example:

https://softwareconnect.com/construction-management/planswif...

Cost estimation apps rely on a database of SKUs, assemblies, etc. Every entry can have dependencies, equations, etc. Like "for every 10ft of X, add 1 widget Y".

Super easy to implement with dynamic languages like LISP, where data can be code (macros). Not something Visual Basic is known for. My "one cool trick" was using VBA's built-in "eval" function equivalent.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#238
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so much central planners deciding who can have what, but rather a natural monopoly. You don't want your water/electricity depend on a family-run shop that can just shut down, and neither you want your purchasing department to hinge on that guy from logistics who can just quit, leaving behind his magic incomprehensible spreadsheets.

We decided that the water/electricity utility doesn't get to control how you use the amount you consume. Modern IT is more like if your water utility had final say over which faucet you installed and how you used it.

If you started using water in, like, industrial or agricultural quantities I guess the town would eventually get curious what is going on.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#239
post #184

– It’s built in. – The IDE is built in. – The syntax is beginner-friendly. – It’s stable and doesn’t change every six month. – It’s well-documented. – No build steps, it just runs, and fast. – It’s resource-efficient (CPU, RAM). – You can easily create dialogs and forms using the built-in visual GUI builder. – You can break into the built-in debugger from your Office document. – If you want to get fancy, it has inter…

All true, but the fascinating thing about the article is that it's the Subject Matter Experts demanding to use something other than VBA to be more productive, and the IT people saying no VBA is the only thing allowed because...reasons.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VBA serves an awesome niche. I once built an awesome simulator that did some pretty complex optimization stuff. The main sheet had input cells for the user, a couple of radio buttons for toggling certain features, and a button to fire off the built-in Excel solver plugin and pull certain values from that process and display it all on a GUI on the first sheet. It took me just a couple of days despite zero VBA experien…

It might be niche for HN, but in muggle world its enormously popular.

Heh, muggle world is the niche, but that niche is arguably bigger than all of the dedicated software engineer niches.
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