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.NET 8

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: .NET 8

#121

Post by Capricorn2481 »

pdntspa wrote: post #115
collaborative wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java and Python have a few. I still don't get how electron got so popular. It's always been pretty straightforward to ship an app with a self-contained Java runtime, much the same as electron ships with v8. Java GUIs have always been worse than c++ ones, but still.. much better than electron I'd say

pySide6 has been a dream for me, it 'just works' and QT is quite robust. I am currently fucking with Java via GraalVM, and packaging my app for distribution has been absolute hell: jlink throws errors. jpackage somehow gets stuck in an infinite loop that generates a directory tree of seemingly infinite depth (so deep that even Explorer can't delete it) GraalVM native-image can't complete and throws all sorts of weird…

I don't know anything about the QT on python as a runtime. Is it supposed to be just as fast since it's bindings to C++, or is it noticeably slower?

Re: .NET 8

#122

Post by pdntspa »

creshal wrote: post #91
collaborative wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java and Python have a few. I still don't get how electron got so popular. It's always been pretty straightforward to ship an app with a self-contained Java runtime, much the same as electron ships with v8. Java GUIs have always been worse than c++ ones, but still.. much better than electron I'd say

And now try to get either to work mobile, or in a browser, or at least try to share frontend code between them. That's where electron shines, and all the "classic" frameworks really don't. QtQuick and JavaFX kiiiind of work for at least some platforms, but it's fairly rough all considered, even compared to the inelegant brute force solution of electron. I'd put my money on the competing "electron, but smarter" soluti…

I hate that we are completely enamored with browsers. Desktop apps and browser webapps are different platforms, with different methodologies and motifs.

I hate hate hate it when a desktop app looks and acts like a web app.

Re: .NET 8

#123

Post by haolez »

dragonwriter wrote: post #96
haolez wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least until it gains an immense market share and Microsoft starts monetizing it again. They've already tried in .NET Core 7, no? I'm staying away for now.

There is no such thing as .NET Core 7, “Core” was a temporary distinction when the Windows-only . NET Framework was still being actively developed, retired with the consolidation to a single .NET with .NET 5. If you got .NET Core 7 somewhere, I’m sure it is monetized: that's often the point of a scam.

The user is not to blame for the confusing naming that the platform owner chooses.

Re: .NET 8

#124

Post by mailund »

EspressoGPT wrote: post #12

.NET 5, .NET Standard, .NET Framework, .NET Core, ... now .NET 8. It's so confusing still.

I've been thinking about this recently, Microsoft seem to consequently name things in the least intuitive way.

Like seriously: Windows XP -> Windows Vista -> Windows 7 -> Windows 8 -> Windows 10

or: xbox -> xbox 360 -> xbox one -> xbox series x/s

and a bunch of other things, like Azure Devops, which doesn't necessary have anything to do with Azure or Devops depending on how you use it. And their editor Visual Studio, and their other editor Visual Studio Code, which are not really related. IIRC, I also had to make a visual studio account in order to access the azure devops repository at my previous client, even though I don't use visual studio (the editor).

It's seriously like the Fast and Furious franchise.

They seem to be doing it for most of the microsoft products I can name, I wonder if there is a reason for it?

Re: .NET 8

#125

Post by pdntspa »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #121
pdntspa wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pySide6 has been a dream for me, it 'just works' and QT is quite robust. I am currently fucking with Java via GraalVM, and packaging my app for distribution has been absolute hell: jlink throws errors. jpackage somehow gets stuck in an infinite loop that generates a directory tree of seemingly infinite depth (so deep that even Explorer can't delete it) GraalVM native-image can't complete and throws all sorts of weird…

I don't know anything about the QT on python as a runtime. Is it supposed to be just as fast since it's bindings to C++, or is it noticeably slower?

I haven't done anything terribly performance-sensitive with it, but what I have written has performed extremely well. My app starts up to its main window instantly (which SHOULD be table stakes...)

Re: .NET 8

#126

Post by wccrawford »

Someone1234 wrote: post #63
willsmith72 wrote: post #20

I'd love to hear from some .NET fanatics, how would you convince someone to use that ecosystem over another?

I love .Net, but context is key. I may suggest .Net for new WebAPI development (minimalist or otherwise), typically with a deployment target of containers and or Linux. It is a strong web back-end language in a similar way to Java but with Linq support, async/await, and a better primary programming language (C#). It has strong integrations into corporate software and all popular DBMS. But, frankly, Linq is the magic…

Any tips or tutorials for a PHP dev who wants to pick .NET up after a couple decades of not using it? I looked at the project templates in Visual Studio 2022 just for web apps and the options made my head spin.

My wife has worked QA for a number of .NET teams and it just seems like something I should at least keep my thumb on, but I've had nothing but frustration with it so far, even just trying to figure out what template to start with.

Re: .NET 8

#127

Post by Kwpolska »

Thaxll wrote: post #51
financltravsty wrote: post #8

Lots of very cool stuff here (AOT, Aspire, etc.). .NET has been held down by the image of its early days, but it has become a pure joy to work with recently. The improvements in tooling and ergonomics have made it a replacement for Go in our org (we migrated from .NET Core 3.1 to Go back to .NET 6 recently).

Big difference is that Go is stable and conservative, net core keep adding a billion features every release. Looking at some net core 2/3 stuff and now to see how many things changed. Good luck with your code base in 5 years when someone decide to add all the new stuff.

.NET is stable, they very rarely remove things. Code written for .NET Framework 2.x will probably work fine on .NET 8 (unless it uses the things that didn't make the jump, like WCF, but there are libraries that provide SOAP support.)

Can a single developer remember all of .NET? No, but that applies to most languages/ecosystems. But if you encounter something you've never seen, you can always check the docs.

And the thing hasn't been named ".NET Core" for 4 consecutive releases now.

Re: .NET 8

#128

Post by leonheld »

ejb999 wrote: post #103
at_a_remove wrote: post #92

I haven't touched .NET in well over a decade. Last time I tried, I felt like a chimpanzee strapped into the cockpit of an F-15. Everything was "deploy!" and "endpoint for automatic upgrades" and " ENTERPRISE " and "web service." Does .NET have any "write a small program that is only a CLI?" options? Or GUI instead of web interface? Something modest.

Yes, it has all that - console applications with no GUI, GUI interfaces on the desktop as well as web interface - has pretty much everything if you know where to look.

And Visual Studio is probably one of the best if not the best IDEs out there.

Re: .NET 8

#129

Post by pjmlp »

willsmith72 wrote: post #20

I'd love to hear from some .NET fanatics, how would you convince someone to use that ecosystem over another?

Not a fanatic, as I use other stacks as well, however a big fan boy from Anders Hejlsberg work, and naturally the team that picked that up.

.NET and Java ecosystems are the only ones with tooling and developer experience that is somehow comparable to the Xerox PARC world. Note for the pedantic, comparable, not exactly the same.

Given the way .NET was born, there is a kind of yin/yang with both platforms.

Some scenarios or guest languages are better in other platform, while some other scenarios or guest languages are better in the other one.

Given this, when would I suggest .NET over Java?

It is closer to C++ in language features (as CLR was designed to accomodate C++ as well), and C# is getting some of those runtime features exposed since C# 7.

Because of this, and XNA/Unity, also got the love from many game studios (Capcom even has their own fork).

Microsoft also understands GUI much better than UNIX shops, so even with the ongoing GUI civil war in Redmond, most of the GUI offerings are still better than what Swing and JavaFX are able to do out of the box.

Blazor looks really cool as technology, however I was in the trenches with WebForms and JSF, so not really something I would like to experience again.

Re: .NET 8

#130

Post by pdntspa »

akgoel wrote: post #26
pdntspa wrote: post #11

I just wish its cross-platform UIs weren't such a mess. Particularly with its MVCish implementation, it was like it couldn't decide what it wanted to be. I really really wish there was a good, straightforward desktop GUI for .Net that simply worked crossplatform and wasn't a complete pain in the ass to program.

They should have fixed up Wine to run Winforms flawlessly, and it would have solved the cross-platform desktop problem.

<3 WinForms
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