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48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

theregister.com

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Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#71

Post by siftrics »

skulk wrote: post #59
josu wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a vague long-term uptrend in prices makes something a store of value A stable and 100% predetermined issuance schedule, along with its scarcity, it's what makes Bitcoin a good store of value. The steady uptrend in prices is the consequence. >useless technology. Just because it's functionality is limited it doesn't make it useless. A store of value that doesn't require boring the planet, or building empty houses, see…

> A store of value that doesn't require boring the planet, or building empty houses, seems like a great improvement to me. Boring holes isn't tenable but using 15 GW of power is acceptable?

Energy will continue to get cheaper and less scarce over the long term. This is a bad argument.

Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#72

Post by throw0101c »

josu wrote: post #50
this_user wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but so far Bitcoin has been doing OK as a store of value No, it hasn't. A store of value is supposed to be stable, it's about volatility. By that same reasoning you could argue that Apple or Tesla stock, or even the stock market in general, is a great store of value. But nobody would ever call it that, because it is far too volatile on a daily basis. Trying to argue that a vague long-term uptrend in prices makes so…

>a vague long-term uptrend in prices makes something a store of value A stable and 100% predetermined issuance schedule, along with its scarcity, it's what makes Bitcoin a good store of value. The steady uptrend in prices is the consequence. >useless technology. Just because it's functionality is limited it doesn't make it useless. A store of value that doesn't require boring the planet, or building empty houses, see…

> A stable and 100% predetermined issuance schedule, along with its scarcity, it's what makes Bitcoin a good store of value. The steady uptrend in prices is the consequence.

"Steady"? What definition of "steady" are you using?

It peaked at US$ 75,000/BTC in Spring 2021, dropped to $40,000/BTC in Summer 2021, went up to $80,000 in Autumn 2021, did a continuous slide down to the $30,000 range in late 2022 and stayed there (dipping all the way to $22,000), it's now been in the $35,000 range for the last few months of 2023, and has jumped to $45,000 range recently.

* https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD/

IMHO that's even more ridiculous than gold (at least in the same time period):

* https://goldbroker.com/charts/gold-price/usd#historical-char...

Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#73

Post by keep_reading »

suziemanul wrote: post #17

As for the stable coins, the researchers from the University of Chicago claim that their stability is a bit more nuanced. Especially, even a stable coin cannot defend against a run https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4226027

LUSD is the most stable stablecoin but very few people use it

https://www.liquity.org

Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#74

Post by latchkey »

zby wrote: post #37
noodlesUK wrote: post #12

I’m not a crypto person, but I have always been curious - how does the tax situation actually work if you don’t want to commit tax evasion? I know that on US tax returns you need to tick a box if you’ve transacted in crypto, and you have to pay tax on the realized gains/losses. How do you actually go about doing that accounting practically given the volatility and the number of transactions? Are there special pieces…

I wrote my own program to parse the logs I get from exchanges and compute the taxes.

And if there is a "bug" in your software that accidentally under calculates how much taxes you owe, no big deal, right?

My point being, this is why it is better to hand these sorts of things off to a third party for auditing. Otherwise, you might end up in a nice pickle with the IRS after having checked that box saying you were trading crypto.

Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#75

Post by latchkey »

chromatin wrote: post #63
ljf wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking to a very pro-crypto friend - part of my (sour grapes) issue with Bitcoin is that is actually a pretty impractical way to purchase items day to day - but he pointed out that this is more of a feature than a bug. He likened it to buying and selling physical gold as a store of value, I hadn't thought of it that way before. I am still stinging from not buying in when I first became aware of it (approx. $1…

> except the highs of 2021 Au contraire! Interestingly, even if you had started purchasing at the *all time high* (~US$69,000) on 8 Nov 2021, if you consistently purchased daily, weekly, or monthly, you would still be up something insane like 37%, outperforming basically all other market sectors. You can check this yourself at a variety of DCA calculators (NB I noticed at least one [ https://dcabtc.com/ ] was broken…

Saylor always buys the top.

Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#76

Post by latchkey »

this_user wrote: post #38
roenxi wrote: post #2

> ... and a lousy store of value I expect this to be true eventually, but so far Bitcoin has been doing OK as a store of value. Unless people bought in the relatively short peaks, HODLers aren't losing crazy amount of money and one could reasonably anticipate that it'll reach $60k/bitcoin again in the near future. There seem to be people convinced that the crypto types are coming out a long way behind but I'm not rea…

> but so far Bitcoin has been doing OK as a store of value No, it hasn't. A store of value is supposed to be stable, it's about volatility. By that same reasoning you could argue that Apple or Tesla stock, or even the stock market in general, is a great store of value. But nobody would ever call it that, because it is far too volatile on a daily basis. Trying to argue that a vague long-term uptrend in prices makes so…

> A store of value is supposed to be stable

Have you looked at the price of gold over the last 50-100 years?

Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#77

Post by latchkey »

throw0101c wrote: post #72
josu wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a vague long-term uptrend in prices makes something a store of value A stable and 100% predetermined issuance schedule, along with its scarcity, it's what makes Bitcoin a good store of value. The steady uptrend in prices is the consequence. >useless technology. Just because it's functionality is limited it doesn't make it useless. A store of value that doesn't require boring the planet, or building empty houses, see…

> A stable and 100% predetermined issuance schedule, along with its scarcity, it's what makes Bitcoin a good store of value. The steady uptrend in prices is the consequence. "Steady"? What definition of "steady" are you using? It peaked at US$ 75,000/BTC in Spring 2021, dropped to $40,000/BTC in Summer 2021, went up to $80,000 in Autumn 2021, did a continuous slide down to the $30,000 range in late 2022 and stayed th…

> has jumped to $45,000 range

$35,000

Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#78

Post by simonebrunozzi »

Detrytus wrote: post #48
jcranmer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you actually go about doing that accounting practically given the volatility and the number of transactions? It's basically the same as with stocks. Work out the equivalent USD value for every trade, and subtract the cost basis to figure out how much capital gains/loss you have on that trade. If valuation is hard (you're trading 5 shitcoins for 1 altcoins), figure out a method you can justify with a straight…

In my country it’s even simpler: no one cares about you converting one shitcoin to another, they want fiat currency values of how much crypto you bought and sold, and total crypto assets you own. They calculate taxes based on that (I’m bit fuzzy on the details)

It would be useful to mention what's your country.

Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#79

Post by adolph »

csomar wrote: post #23
adolph wrote: post #7

What is the mechanism for “crypto assets to avoid tax?”

Except for people who profited from the rise and cashed their profits on a foreign land, nope, crypto is not really good to avoid taxes. That and you eventually need to bridge with the traditional monetary system and suddenly crypto is worse than most alternatives out there. The thing is, crypto exchanges somehow are not banks and thus are not "technically" subject to CRS. This is kind of a CRS for crypto exchanges.…

Background on CRS in case someone has the same question I did:

The Common Reporting Standard (CRS) is an information standard for the Automatic Exchange Of Information (AEOI) regarding financial accounts on a global level, between tax authorities . . . The idea was based on the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) implementation agreements and its legal basis is the Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Tax Matters (MCAA). 120 countries have signed the agreement to implement, and the MCAA remains open for more countries to adopt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard

Re: 48-nation bloc to crack down on using crypto assets to avoid tax

#80

Post by wojciii »

siftrics wrote: post #70
wojciii wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sold my bitcoin recently after trying to find a practical method to use it. I paid my taxes which were about 50% from the earned amount. In my opinion it's useless as a currency as no one uses it for anything worthwhile. I could have converted the BTC to another crypto currency .. but I would have the same problem. How to buy something with it?

Why'd you buy it in the first place if your only perception of its value is to use it to buy something else? Why not just buy the thing you wanted to buy?

I bought it cheaply to experiment with digital currency .. but then got a wife and kids and forgot about it.
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