Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#101

Post by tobych » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 6:33 AM UTC

asnyder wrote: post #2

Unfortunately in some cases a zipcode is in fact not enough, as it's possible for a zipcode to spread across multiple towns. However, if you have a full 9 digit zipcode then you can in fact always determine. However, even if you can't always determine this information exactly, a zipcode should be enough to pre-populate these fields for you most of the time, and in those rare cases which they don't a choice can be pre…

I worked for Avalara.com for a while: they help companies calculate sales tax based on location. I learned there that the five-digit ZIP code is certainly not enough. Some five-digit ZIP codes cross state boundaries, for one thing.

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#102

Post by sureshv » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 7:47 AM UTC

gergles wrote: post #90

runjake wrote: post #68

Full ZIP codes are actually 9 digits: a 5 digit prefix, which is what people are used to -- and a 4 digit "block" extension. Each city will typically have many block extensions, and probably multiple prefixes associated to it.

Full ZIP codes are actually 11 digits: a 5 digit prefix, a 4 digit delivery-route-location code, and a 2 digit delivery point number. This 11 digit number uniquely identifies every single place the USPS can deliver mail.

Plus it's not cheap to implement a proper address coding system that conforms to USPS let alone the rest of the world. The USPS data alone is around $4k per year to license (it gets updated every couple months.

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#103

Post by jarek » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 8:25 AM UTC

icodeforlove wrote: post #62

doesn't google do this too? http://maps.googleapis.com/maps/api/geocode/json?address=488...

As a super-fancy bonus, that also works for non-U.S. codes. Though yes, TOS will definitely be a concern for commercial use.

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#104

Post by rmc » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 8:40 AM UTC

BryanB55 wrote: post #60

rmc wrote: post #45

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be USA-only or not. It seems to ask for 'country', so I assume it's aimed at the whole world. And here's where reality disagrees with your simple organisation. * First "zip code" is mostly an American term, "post code" is used in other anglosphere countries. * Not all countries have "everyone is in a city" model, this seems to happen in the USA, where 'city' is often an administrat…

Despite the mentioned problems with this method I still think it is a great start and should be implemented more often. The U.S. GDP is three times larger than any other economy, there is no doubt that for a lot of sites, US addresses are the norm. Even if it is not 100% accurate it would still be nice to pre-populate fields and let the city be changed if it is incorrect.

The U.S. GDP is three times larger than any other economy

Eh? The GDP of the European Union is larger than the USA.

(A lot of this now hinges on how you defined 'country' or 'economy'. I'll point out that most law comes from european level and EU passports say "European Union" on the front :P )

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#105

Post by rmc » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 8:42 AM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #67

rmc wrote: post #45

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be USA-only or not. It seems to ask for 'country', so I assume it's aimed at the whole world. And here's where reality disagrees with your simple organisation. * First "zip code" is mostly an American term, "post code" is used in other anglosphere countries. * Not all countries have "everyone is in a city" model, this seems to happen in the USA, where 'city' is often an administrat…

On the third bullet point, that's just a word with two meanings, not a country-to-country difference. The USA is also a State in that sense: it has a Department of State to handle state-to-state affairs (i.e. foreign affairs), is a Member State of the United Nations, etc. The use of the term "state" for a subnational division, roughly akin to a Canadian "province", is a different meaning with the same spelling. The s…

The use of the term "state" for a subnational division, roughly akin to a Canadian "province", is a different meaning with the same spelling.

Fun fact, Ireland has provinces (4 of them). However they aren't used for addresses, only for sports or cultural reasons. So Dublin (the city) is in the State of Ireland, and the Province of Lenister. Sometimes the web forms will have a field saying "State/Province", and I wonder which to put in.

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#106

Post by rmc » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 8:45 AM UTC

jellicle wrote: post #25

If you're going to do this, do the whole enchilada: zip code + person's name ought to give you their whole address for 99% of the population (hint: voter records). Well, 95%, considering such records are often out of date. The problem is this will likely spook many people - "how does this website know my street address?"

(hint: voter records)

Aren't most of the electoral register lists only legally allowed to be used for certain purposes? You might run into legal trouble if you were to use them like this.

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#107

Post by rmc » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 8:46 AM UTC

tedyoung wrote: post #17

I just love it when people create projects to solve problems that have already been solved before. 5 minutes of web searching would have told you: * The USPS already has this information * ZIP codes are not precise enough to provide a single city/town result (in fact, many web sites already get this wrong). * ZIP+4 codes will give you block-level detail, but I doubt more than a few percent of people know what their +…

Less space than a Nomad. No wireless. Lame.

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#108

Post by Genmutant » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 9:19 AM UTC

rmc wrote: post #45

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be USA-only or not. It seems to ask for 'country', so I assume it's aimed at the whole world. And here's where reality disagrees with your simple organisation. * First "zip code" is mostly an American term, "post code" is used in other anglosphere countries. * Not all countries have "everyone is in a city" model, this seems to happen in the USA, where 'city' is often an administrat…

Doesn't work for German zip codes. Returns 404 or some US city with the same code.

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#109

Post by dmoo » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 11:06 AM UTC

rmc wrote: post #105

_delirium wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the third bullet point, that's just a word with two meanings, not a country-to-country difference. The USA is also a State in that sense: it has a Department of State to handle state-to-state affairs (i.e. foreign affairs), is a Member State of the United Nations, etc. The use of the term "state" for a subnational division, roughly akin to a Canadian "province", is a different meaning with the same spelling. The s…

The use of the term "state" for a subnational division, roughly akin to a Canadian "province", is a different meaning with the same spelling. Fun fact, Ireland has provinces (4 of them). However they aren't used for addresses, only for sports or cultural reasons. So Dublin (the city) is in the State of Ireland, and the Province of Lenister. Sometimes the web forms will have a field saying "State/Province", and I wond…

The Government in Ireland is currently in the process of introducing postcodes http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Postal/Postcodes.htm

Re: Ziptastic: Isn't a zipcode enough?

#110

Post by jellicle » Wed, Apr 11, 2012, 2:43 PM UTC

rscale wrote: post #85

jellicle wrote: post #25

If you're going to do this, do the whole enchilada: zip code + person's name ought to give you their whole address for 99% of the population (hint: voter records). Well, 95%, considering such records are often out of date. The problem is this will likely spook many people - "how does this website know my street address?"

Are you aware of a voter registration database that's reasonably complete and up to date, and doesn't cost a ton of money to access? I'd love one for a current project, but my initial research seemed to indicate the only solutions were priced out of our budget (either in straight dollars, or in the man-hours to cobble together multiple sources).

Well, I don't know what a "ton of money" is, but there are a number of companies that have collected voter information US-wide and make it available:

http://www.politicalforce.com/ods_tutorial

Of course the same data (better!) is available from the big consumer database vendors as well.