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Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

macchaffee.com

11–20 of 145 posts

Re: Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

#11
I've fought against WAFs in the past, but in govt departments, they are often a check-box in your security checklist that must be checked. I've even had to fight a security guy telling me I needed two WAFs because he wasn't convinced the first WAF was good enough (because it was a managed service and the vendor didn't want to share the specific configuration.)

In saying that, there are definitely use-cases where a WAF is required - especially if you have a legacy app on an older code-base that needs to be exposed to the internet.

Re: Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

#12

Nicely written and the author clearly has more experience than myself. I did, however, get hit with a data breach via SQL injection, and everyone I spoke to (not vendors or sales folks) seemed to agree that a WAF would have blocked the attack outright.

Parameterised SQL queries would have blocked it outright also.

Parameterised queries however don’t need an annual fee and a team of security engineers to babysit it.

Re: Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

#13
A few counters to this:

First off, most large applications need something on the edge to help deal with volumetric attacks. If you've already got something there, adding a light WAF engine isn't exactly a huge ask. It's (almost) free.

Also, WAFs let you "fast patch" against vulnerabilities. The Log4j example the author gives as a negative is actually a positive. Your vendor can help prevent you from being attacked while you have time to respond. Those rules given in the example are bad, for sure, and probably have false positives - but, a few days of a slightly higher rate of false positives while you patch is probably worth it to most organizations.

Lastly, WAFs let you increase "risk scores" of requests and IPs, which lets you turn up captchas and other roadblocks against malicious IPs. This raises the bar from the floor to somewhere about knee height. Not a lot, but one more thing for an attacker to have to step over.

I do agree, though, that people treat WAFs as a magic solution or make them really heavy. Against application attacks, I view them as a tool of medium importance. Also, there are also better and worse vendors out there. Personally, in a WAF, I view "less as more".

The more rules and complexity, the more problems you're going to have. Adding rules should be temporary, and there's very few reasons to have blocking rulesets for long running issues.

Re: Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

#14

People will stop deploying WAFs when the compliance standards are rewritten to not require them. They are prominent in lots of installations because the box ticking exercise of compliance frameworks, namely PCI or HIPAA, require a WAF-like component to reach compliance. It took long enough for them to be written in that now everyone knows they need one. It will be even longer for them to be phased out, and no one wit…

> People will stop deploying WAFs when the compliance standards are rewritten to not require them.

Honestly AWS WAF is perfect for this. It's not a great WAF but it is ideal if you need "pretend to have a WAF" as a service so you can tick the box.

Re: Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

#15

People will stop deploying WAFs when the compliance standards are rewritten to not require them. They are prominent in lots of installations because the box ticking exercise of compliance frameworks, namely PCI or HIPAA, require a WAF-like component to reach compliance. It took long enough for them to be written in that now everyone knows they need one. It will be even longer for them to be phased out, and no one wit…

> People will stop deploying WAFs when the compliance standards are rewritten to not require them. Honestly AWS WAF is perfect for this. It's not a great WAF but it is ideal if you need "pretend to have a WAF" as a service so you can tick the box.

As much as I hate to admit it, I've done exactly that and passed the audit. Certainly says a lot about the auditors...

Re: Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

#16
This sounds so much like music to my ears. Where I work a WAF is mandatory, Azure Application Gateway in our instance, and they enable ALL of the rules because the outsourced colleagues they follow the rules set by infosec like sheep. The consequences are that many requests are blocked as a false positive.

Completely legitimate requests, like for instance an OpenID redirect from Azure AD (Microsoft Online) login to the application. They then get blocked by the SQL Injection rules in AAG. So user friendly.

At one point we were seriously considering base64 encoding all request bodies from javascript before sending them to the server and decoding them there - just to get around this bullshit.

Re: Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

#18
post #3

People will stop deploying WAFs when the compliance standards are rewritten to not require them. They are prominent in lots of installations because the box ticking exercise of compliance frameworks, namely PCI or HIPAA, require a WAF-like component to reach compliance. It took long enough for them to be written in that now everyone knows they need one. It will be even longer for them to be phased out, and no one wit…

We are still waiting on compliance standards to update their password change policies to reflect what most people have been saying for over a decade, that frequently changing passwords are a security risk..

NIST itself has been actively discouraging password rotation since 2016: https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html#memorizedsecr...

Re: Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People will stop deploying WAFs when the compliance standards are rewritten to not require them. Honestly AWS WAF is perfect for this. It's not a great WAF but it is ideal if you need "pretend to have a WAF" as a service so you can tick the box.

As much as I hate to admit it, I've done exactly that and passed the audit. Certainly says a lot about the auditors...

It's basically fizzbuzz. If you have a WAF, it proves you know how to add a WAF. Presumably even one you know how to configure when security needs change.

Compliance auditors are mostly there to underwrite posture, not actual risk.

Re: Discouraging the use of web application firewalls

#20
> Imagine how slow the web would be if every piece of JavaScript needed to be analyzed by hundreds of regexes before being executed!

Well, there is super duper secure mode in Edge that disables the JIT - so there's that. It also enables CET. https://microsoftedge.github.io/edgevr/posts/Super-Duper-Sec...

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