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Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

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Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#21

Post by crazygringo »

karmakaze wrote: post #15

The shadow mask is overly represented. This may work better on a yet even higher resolution display, or perhaps there's an option to reduce the shadow mask effect. The other thing that this emulation can't get right is that phosphor-based displays had more vibrant colors (at lower intensities) than currently popular (IPS) LCD panels. VA panels are better for this.

> The shadow mask is overly represented.

Is it? When I look up "CRT macro lens" on Google Images [1] the shadow mask is extremely pronounced -- possibly even more than here.

I've just tried looking at the screenshots on both a Retina and non-Retina display, and they seem pretty faithful to what I remember growing up. I'm really quite impressed.

Also -- what do you mean by "more vibrant colors"? If you mean (presumably) greater color saturation = wider color gamut, I can't find any source supporting the idea that CRT's had a wider gamut than modern IPS panels -- to the contrary, IPS seems to be at least as good if not better (although early LCD displays weren't). And P3 IPS displays like Apple's certainly blow CRT color gamuts out of the water.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=crt+macro+lens&tbm=isch

Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#22

Post by bogantech »

unixhero wrote: post #20

I never understood why anyone would want interlaced mode. Can someone enlighten me?

It doubled the amount of lines that could be displayed on screen back in the day.

It usually doesn't look that bad if there aren't any thin horizontal lines imo

Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#23

Post by whaleofatw2022 »

unixhero wrote: post #20

I never understood why anyone would want interlaced mode. Can someone enlighten me?

The biggest value is when you are emulating hardware that output to such a display. Often the designers of software (especially games) optimized their art for the display. Castlevania Symphony of the night is one of my more favored examples of this, look up a crt-lcd comparison

Aside from thqt, maybe artistic looks for new video...

Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#24

Post by com2kid »

djbusby wrote: post #10

Seems like a good spot to mention https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term Cool Retro Terminal is a nice accessory for when doing recording or screenshots - cause it looks cool. Can't use it as my daily driver tho. And enough settings in there you can make it look like your favourite old one.

I really wish cool retro term supported multiple tabs in MacOS.

I actually daily drive it, if you set things up just right it is absurdly readable, more so than a regular terminal IMHO.

Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#25

Post by bogantech »

fjfaase wrote: post #2

NTSC was also known for its poor colour reproducability compared to PAL due to how the color signal was modulated. PAL had automatic control where NTSC often required manual adjustment in case the hue was drifted. For that reason NTSC was often said to stand for 'Never Twice the Same Color' or 'Never The Same Color'. I wonder if any of the shaders also has this behavior of randomly shifting the hue or an ability to c…

As a PAL person I wonder if there are any shaders that give Hanover bars

Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#26

Post by masswerk »

crazygringo wrote: post #21
karmakaze wrote: post #15

The shadow mask is overly represented. This may work better on a yet even higher resolution display, or perhaps there's an option to reduce the shadow mask effect. The other thing that this emulation can't get right is that phosphor-based displays had more vibrant colors (at lower intensities) than currently popular (IPS) LCD panels. VA panels are better for this.

> The shadow mask is overly represented. Is it? When I look up "CRT macro lens" on Google Images [1] the shadow mask is extremely pronounced -- possibly even more than here. I've just tried looking at the screenshots on both a Retina and non-Retina display, and they seem pretty faithful to what I remember growing up. I'm really quite impressed. Also -- what do you mean by "more vibrant colors"? If you mean (presumabl…

Mind that CRTs had a viewing distance, much like the subject point in classic painting. E.g., at this distance, dithering tended to blend into a solid tint on common consumer CRTs. (The granularity of a shadow mask is generally smaller than that of a pixel/PEL, so there are actually two kinds of rasterization involved, which helps blending. The effect also depends on the shape of the mask, as in round, oval, square holes, or even a Trinitron-style wire mesh.) Also, the expectation to actually perceive CRT colors when reproduced on a modern panel may be overly optimistic.

I'm generally impressed by these shaders (they are about the best, I've seen), but I also think that colors are too muted and that the mask is overrepresented.

Edit: Regarding CRT intensities, mind that a CRT set up for daylight viewing would give you headaches when viewed in the dark, which is hard to achieve with a modern display panel.

Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#27

Post by malkia »

My son (15) got hooked up on using old-"tv" effects, but he was not happy with existing shaders, Adobe Premiere / After Effects / etc, so by pure luck one day driving home saw an old Cathode TV/VHS combo boxset left outside for someone to pick up - and I've got it - the VHS does not work, but he's now happy with doing the effects he wants (plus old Hi8 camera for others).

Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#28

Post by westurner »

djbusby wrote: post #10

Seems like a good spot to mention https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term Cool Retro Terminal is a nice accessory for when doing recording or screenshots - cause it looks cool. Can't use it as my daily driver tho. And enough settings in there you can make it look like your favourite old one.

A similar theme for JupyterLab/JupyterLite would be cool

jupyterlab_miami_nights is real nice, too https://anaconda.org/conda-forge/jupyterlab_miami_nights

DI's Synthwave station somewhat matches the decade: https://www.di.fm/synthwave

Lighter almost solarized red for terminal text is also a decent terminal experience IMHO

Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#29

Post by crazygringo »

masswerk wrote: post #26
crazygringo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The shadow mask is overly represented. Is it? When I look up "CRT macro lens" on Google Images [1] the shadow mask is extremely pronounced -- possibly even more than here. I've just tried looking at the screenshots on both a Retina and non-Retina display, and they seem pretty faithful to what I remember growing up. I'm really quite impressed. Also -- what do you mean by "more vibrant colors"? If you mean (presumabl…

Mind that CRTs had a viewing distance, much like the subject point in classic painting. E.g., at this distance, dithering tended to blend into a solid tint on common consumer CRTs. (The granularity of a shadow mask is generally smaller than that of a pixel/PEL, so there are actually two kinds of rasterization involved, which helps blending. The effect also depends on the shape of the mask, as in round, oval, square h…

> Regarding CRT intensities, mind that a CRT set up for daylight viewing would give you headaches when viewed in the dark, which is hard to achieve with a modern display panel.

Are you suggesting CRT's were brighter than modern LCD screens?

That's not the case at all. Average consumer CRT's were 100 nits, the super-bright ones in the 2000's around 200 nits. While your cheapest MacBook is 400 nits, and iPhones have been over 600 for a long time. (Current cheaper laptop brands can be lower around 200 today though.)

Re: Cathode-Retro: A collection of shaders to emulate the display of an NTSC signal

#30

Post by dbcurtis »

unixhero wrote: post #20

I never understood why anyone would want interlaced mode. Can someone enlighten me?

People notice flicker below about 50Hz. So two 1/2-frames at 60 Hz gives flicker-free viewing of 30 fps video. The “light chaser phenomenon” kicks in at 15 Hz, so that is the minimum full-frame rate for the illusion of smooth motion.
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