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Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

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Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#111
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that there is no good textbook for Classical Mechanics out there. At least not on an introductory level. It's funny that for the 19th century and the first few decades of the 20th one physicists were so eager to simplify and generalize their knowledge. With the side-effect of learning quite a few surprising things from the work. And yet for almost a century the goal is explicitly the opposite. (It's al…

I learnt a lot of physics from Marion's 2nd edition (not SR there though). An older and completely forgotten fine textbook is W. Hauser's Introduction to the Principles of Mechanics . Then you jump into Goldstein (the 1980 one, again not SR there). It's a good idea to buy any Schaum book from Spiegel about this too, also for vector analysis if you can't take a course on that.

Yeah, in retrospect, I've set myself for failure with that universal claim.

But the proof of failure is instructive :)

Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#112
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem with a good book, age? Baby Rudin's first edition is 70 and the latest one is from 1976. It's still widely used and will be for a while. Honestly your problem was that you didn't know any Classical Mechanics yet and you were assuming that the volume of recent developments made old books obsolete. Maybe in Biology, in Physics getting to recent developments would mean that you're familiar with Goldst…

I had a 1930s edition of a "radio physics" textbook as a child, and because there could be no prior assumptions about exposure or familiarity, it was filled with very complex ideas explained so cohesively and coherently that, well, I could understand. The author knew that this book was for people who might be as involved in the business of radio as its science or engineering, so they wrote as much about the applicati…

> complex ideas explained so cohesively

I wonder if the same thing isn't happening with computer science. When I started studying the topic in the late 80's, I was part of the earliest generation that actually did, and everything seemed to be explicitly written with the goal of making sense. Some things (like recursion and pointers) were fundamentally complicated, but they were made as simple as they reasonably could be.

My son is studying computer science in college right now and I look at the way they present the material and it often seems designed to confuse - I'll read it over and then explain it to him the way _I_ was taught it and he'll say, "oh my gosh, why don't they explain it that way?"

Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#113
post #13

Previous discussion from 2022... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32530035

They talk (rightly) about mathematics replacing infinitely small but not 0 numbers with limits there. Infinitesimals were later reintroduced with rigor through https://mathworld.wolfram.com/NonstandardAnalysis.html I have long thought such would be easier to work with on modern computers.

Infinitesimals are commonly used in scientific computing (see forward mode automatic differentiation).

Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#114
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the pedagogy, as in, the best most effective way to teach people things, should improve massively in 70 years. Whether it actually does, that is another question.

Should it really though? Maybe pedagogy is just hard and we can't expect constant progress.

Pedagogy, like any other field is constantly developing. We are continually learning new and better ways to teach materials and thus I think the continued evolution of teaching materials has the potential to be a good thing (and I've created curriculum for professional learning, for grad school and for bootcamps).

It is true that just because a book in newer it is not necessarily pedagogically better

It is also true that a poor selection of content or understanding by the author could doom a book even with better pedagogy.

All that said, I love the idea of OSS books/exercises for teaching - I don't know if a sufficiently engaged and competent (domain + pedagogy) would evolve around and/all of them, but it'd be a fine experiment to try!

It would also be great training material for LLMs to help them to tutor using more thoughtful metaphors and examples.

Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that the Fourier Transformation doesn't belong in the calculus program at all. It should be taught in linear algebra, where it does not only make sense, but is a non-trivial example of application that the textbooks have so little of.

You need analysis to make sense of infinite series, indefinite integrals, exponential functions, etc.

If there's one place for Fourier analysis to be is on linear algebra.

The calculus course is way too bloated for historical reasons that haven't mattered for more than a century. Pushing everything into that context only serves to make the contents hard to understand and seemingly useless.

Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#116
There's a lot going on here. First, one of the problems with engineering - and CS has it even worse - is that new ideas and methods get added all the time, but the length of an undergraduate degree stays constant. Compounding the problem, since schools choose or are made to teach more and more things all the time as well (including computing, and topics downstream from computing like "digital media"), one way to deal with more and more topics is to sacrifice depth/rigour on some of the old-fashioned ones like math, so universities have to teach more and more things that they used to rely on students knowing from school as well. The discussion last year about California math reforms and the open letter signed by Scott Aaronson et al. which I'm sure was discussed on HN as well, may stand as an example of this (yes there's a "social justice" angle to it, but the roots of the problem are far deeper than that).

Secondly, a related problem is that a lot of "classical" mathematics was born as an answer to the big questions of the day, and the way it's taught is often just the answer, without any context about the question, and less still about why anyone would care about the question. For example, there's basic logic courses that show 0th-order logic is complete and sound w.r.t the usual rules, but don't give any intuition that this links back to the Entscheidungsproblem and Goedel's theorem and fundamental questions about the nature of the world and philosophy - the mathematical community cared about this at the time! It would be like teaching Turing's halting problem just by giving a definition, a proof and perhaps an example without any idea what question Turing (and Church) were trying to answer in the first place, or the implications for proof-checkers and code-verifiers these days (Coq, TLA+ and so on all exist so Turing's negative result doesn't imply that all is lost).

For differential equations in particular, Cauchy, Sturm-Liouville and others mentioned were all answering (or trying to answer) particular questions that the mathematical community at the time cared about, and without this context the subject can indeed seem dry. I agree with G.-C. Rota (the author of the PDF) that these are not necessarily questions that today's engineers care about, and so yes we can mention that uniqueness theorems exist and move on to linear systems with constant coefficients. If you can't find space to teach and motivate the question, then sure, you don't need to teach the answer either.

As for "functions" that have integrals but no graphs, I also don't like avoiding them by mumbling something about different types of integrals and measures, as if these objects were some kind of organs for sexual reproduction that we can't name because Queen Victoria would blush. No, an ordinary function is something with signature A -> B, and a density on A is a quite ordinary function f with signature S(A) -> B where S is a sigma-algebra that is a subset of the powerset of A and f has certain properties. Usually, but not always, evaluating a density at a set with a single element just gives you 0 and is not very helpful. Measure theory is useful because we can work out certain properties of these functions without always falling back to the powerset definition - that is we can pretend they are a kind of function A -> B in those cases where it does something useful and doesn't break anything else, as long as we understand what's really going on. Case in point: a distribution on the reals that is 1/2 the uniform distribution on [0, 1] plus 1/2 probability mass on the point 2. The probability of any measurable set X is 1/2 the intersection of X and [0, 1], plus 1/2 if 2 is an element of X. There is no mysterious delta function whose value at 2 is exactly "one half infinity" or anything like that, it's just a function from sets to sets where one particular set with one element happens to have a nonzero value. Once you can do this, you are allowed to write 1/2 * U_[0,1] + 1/2 * \delta_2 if you want to.

Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#117
post #14

If when I started learning about calculus at 14/15 someone had explained why we were doing this it would have made it so much less confusing. Explaining in terms of speed/distance/acceleration seems to make complete sense now (one of several potential examples). However discussing a function and talking about splitting in into small (infinitesimal) strips of delta quantities and a list of equations / proofs made it c…

> However discussing a function and talking about splitting in into small (infinitesimal) strips of delta quantities and a list of equations / proofs made it completely dry and uninteresting.

This was exactly my experience as well. I spent almost an entire first semester with a C average, mostly because I couldn't grasp what I was doing or why I was doing it. I still remember my "Eureka!!!" moment of sitting in the school library and working on a series of problems about water escaping a pool through an every-widening hole in the side. At that point, it all made sense, and I a) finished with mostly A's and b) was the only one in my class to score a 5 on the AP test later that year. I eventually went on to major in EE with a focus on Signals Processing (including grad school), so I always find it ironic that I went from not getting it all, to basically 8 straight years of nothing but Calculus.

Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#118

There seems to be something similar in other branches of mathematics too (and lots of other fields). A clear example I recall was studying Fourier transforms in math and I couldn't make any sense of it. To me it was just some by-rote algebra with integrals of exponentials of complex numbers. But then I happened to do some audio signal analysis, and when I saw a magnitude spectrum of a waveform, it was instantly obvio…

I'd say that the Fourier Transformation doesn't belong in the calculus program at all. It should be taught in linear algebra, where it does not only make sense, but is a non-trivial example of application that the textbooks have so little of.

Why should it be in linear algebra? You mean as in doing linear algebra with functions in infinite-dimensional spaces? What I recall mostly (not) learning from linear algebra were various classifications of matrices and their properties (which made very little sense to me at the time too).

I'm not exactly sure where FT should belong in the math syllabus. It's heavily related to trigonometry of course but it is an integral transform, so needs a bit of calculus. Although discrete versions are probably easier to grasp with just multiplications and sums, and there is quite rarely much actual integrating as in find-the-closed-form-antiderivative going on.

Maybe trying to have too "unified" syllabus for engineers/scientists is not the best way in practice. Instead there could be more discipline-specific teaching (something TFA hints to too). With ML (and 3D graphics earlier) something like this seems to be happening to linear algebra. The "mathy" linear algebra (that I studied at least) is mostly about properties and decompositions of (complex) matrices, but in ML/3D engineers very rarely use such things (but do need stuff outside "traditional" linear algebra like tensor products, projective coordinates and rotation groups).

Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#119
> What can we expect students to get out of an elementary course in differential equations? I reject the “bag of tricks” answer to this question. A course taught as a bag of tricks is devoid of educational value. One year later, the students will forget the tricks, most of which are useless anyway.

That's exactly how I was taught differential equations 20 years ago. And as expected I have totally forgotten all of them. I do wish I'd gotten some deeper lessons from it. Even a concept or two that stuck with me would be better than remembering I learned a bunch of math tricks a long time ago that I can no longer do.

Re: Lessons I wish I had learned before teaching differential equations [pdf] (1997)

#120
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are excellent textbooks on Classical Mechanics, probably because it's a crystal clear subject and you can give a detailed account of the essentials in a single volume without handwaving. Of course everything can be improved, but it also can be muddled. If it works think twice before fixing it. Kind of what happens with Rudin and introductory Real Analysis. On the other hand, there's for instance Optics where yo…

Why should pedagogy ever end? That's like saying at some point in health care medicine must end and you're responsible for your own treatment. What are the professors for, doing research and abusing their grad students?

The idea is becoming intellectually independent, arriving in the stage of self-pedagogy if you like. Peer learning when there's the chance.

You can't realistically expect that there will always be someone up the ladder to explain things to you. I mean, who explains stuff to the professors if it worked like that?

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