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The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

bloomberg.com

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Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#381

Post by 8organicbits »

jl6 wrote: post #291
tomp wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a sensible argument unless you think about it for about 5 seconds. In reality, most of those women absolutely wouldn’t want said man to literally burn $3k or even $20k. Absolutely 100% brainwashed.

Are you completely sure? https://caratsandcake.com/articles/wedding-fireworks-wedding... “Wedding fireworks can cost anywhere between $3,000 and $25,000, according to Theiss—it all depends on timing and the size of the show you want. The more common range is $3,000 to $5,000 for weddings.”

What's the objection here? A large party with a hired pyrotechnic specialist giving a performance using expendable supplies is going to cost some money. Is this an arguement against large parties in general?

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#382

Post by hnbad »

tomp wrote: post #289
jl6 wrote: post #283

Diamonds are a scam and an ethical minefield, but I disagree with the notion that women are brainwashed or shallow for wanting one. It’s not about the diamond. It’s about wanting a man with enough resources to waste on a diamond. A diamond’s lack of intrinsic value or utility is a feature. The waste is the point. In a sea of potential mates, finding one who can throw away $3000 as though it were nothing, is a great f…

This sounds like a sensible argument unless you think about it for about 5 seconds. In reality, most of those women absolutely wouldn’t want said man to literally burn $3k or even $20k. Absolutely 100% brainwashed.

I love how both of you are basically just arguing about different ways of how women have no agency.

"Those women" are definitely "brainwashed" but phrasing it that way is very condescending. It's called advertising and culture and you're not immune to propaganda either.

Some women genuinely value conspicuous consumption as a status symbol the same way some men do. Some women believe diamond rings are a must because "that's the way it is" and they don't want to be outsiders. Some women just like sparkly shiny things.

Calling any of this "brainwashing" makes it sound like this is odd or noteworthy: you only think so because you're appaled by this particular example but you're likely ignorant to the myriads of ways you yourself hold irrational, toxic or even self-destructive values and beliefs due to your upbringing and the culture you exist in.

Yes, diamonds bad. But women who want diamonds aren't exceptionally shallow or odd as humans. They're just shallow and odd in people you are aware of and find distasteful.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#383

Post by pas »

jl6 wrote: post #283

Diamonds are a scam and an ethical minefield, but I disagree with the notion that women are brainwashed or shallow for wanting one. It’s not about the diamond. It’s about wanting a man with enough resources to waste on a diamond. A diamond’s lack of intrinsic value or utility is a feature. The waste is the point. In a sea of potential mates, finding one who can throw away $3000 as though it were nothing, is a great f…

> It’s about wanting a man with enough resources to waste on a diamond.

well yes, but not really. it's about showing off. it's a status game. which is fine for a certain degree. "we are social animals", etc.

status is intertwined with a lot of very pragmatic interpersonal things (peer pressure of conformism, reciprocating gifts, respecting each other, not being late or too early, taking turns to speak and listen, remembering birthdays, remembering who remembers our birthdays) and community-wide trust (who can ask you a favor, loans, borrow your car, who do you work with).

but there are much better signals for "who do you pick as a mate" than "how many carats does this diamond is?", of course arguably a lot of people are not really good at picking up on those interpersonal signals, so ... they recruit the community through these reflective signals.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#384

Post by benj111 »

Retric wrote: post #371
benj111 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define value. You might not value it, but I dare say you value things that I don't value. Define artificial tradition. Yes someone can invent it, but it requires people to actually adopt it. All the trappings of Christmas were invented by someone. They aren't 'artificial' though

Value is defined in free markets by what you can sell something for. Artificial tradition as in created by a marketing campaign to sell a product. Same things as eating “KFC on Christmas” in Japan or more recently “Happy Honda Days” just slightly older and more widespread.

>but diamonds aren’t worth what you’re paying

>Value is defined in free markets by what you can sell something for

So if someone can sell you a diamond for X, it is worth X. So the diamond is worth what you're paying.

Was Christmas created to sell Christianity?

I just don't get the distinction. A 'natural' tradition isn't somehow more wholesome, we've just forgotten who invented it. And the meaning still derives from the people partaking in that tradition.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#385

Post by BlueTemplar »

ginko wrote: post #351
Animats wrote: post #227

The diamond industry has a terrible problem. They promoted diamonds as "perfection". The most valuable diamond is supposed to be a crystal with no flaws. Then they ran into the semiconductor materials industry. Wafer fabs want every atom where it is supposed to be. So semiconductor materials manufacturers are very good at making crystals with few or no flaws. So, now the synthetic diamond market looks like this.[1] D…

Diamonds are still too expensive as long as you can't get phone screens, PC heatsinks and chip wafers made from the stuff.

Diamond paste has been available for heatsinks for years.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#386

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

oblio wrote: post #358
Maxion wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That first link makes me want to buy some 1 carat CVDs to play around with. I mean at those prices, making my own diamond chandelier isn't too out of the question.

Well, if you think about it, mass manufacturing, progress in industrial chemistry, plastics, etc, did a lot of impossible things super cheap. We have disposable pieces of plastics worth 10 cents that if teleported back to 1600 in bulk (say, 1000 units) would have cost entire counties back then, including the people living on them: light, strong, elaborate and very precisely machined. Look at this thing: https://www.d…

Road quality in 1600s would make it quite difficult I think.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#387

Post by dustypotato »

globular-toast wrote: post #316
jl6 wrote: post #283

Diamonds are a scam and an ethical minefield, but I disagree with the notion that women are brainwashed or shallow for wanting one. It’s not about the diamond. It’s about wanting a man with enough resources to waste on a diamond. A diamond’s lack of intrinsic value or utility is a feature. The waste is the point. In a sea of potential mates, finding one who can throw away $3000 as though it were nothing, is a great f…

Yeah, it's not brainwashing. That's hilarious if people think any marketing company would go to the effort to brainwash people, if such a thing is even possible. Marketing companies leverage what is already there. Car companies didn't brainwash men into wanting "rugged", "angry" looking "trucks". They merely recognised the slightly pathetic tendency for some men to want to make themselves look bigger and tougher. It'…

The difference being: Another person doesn't have to pay for it

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#388

Post by saiya-jin »

seattle_spring wrote: post #203
friend_and_foe wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that works for most men. Personally, one of my criteria is that she can't want a diamond, that might sound crazy but I want a partner in life that is financially sensible and fiscally responsible, we have to leave our children with more than we were left with or we have failed, that is a core part of my philosophy of family building. Thankfully I found her. I also had a talk with her dad about it after I met…

Splurging every once in a while does not inherently make someone “fiscally irresponsible.” For many people, especially on this forum, $3k-$5k for a ring is literally a few days work or less worth of pay. (Please no one get pedantic on ring cost to me, absolutely not the point of this comment)

I don't have problem with the cost so much (but serious proposals were supposed to be 3x the salary, no? so you lose quite a bit) but rather overall business and how it manipulates people.

From poor people destroying their lives in Congo open pit mines to deBeers laughing in your face when selling you small rock which is not that rare for as much money as you are willing to accept. And if you got any form of certificate from then that your specific diamond is not blood diamond, well that paper has less value than used toilet paper, nobody could ever check or enforce that. So people here mentioning how their wives glow when looking at diamonds, well they are looking at shiny human suffering. And if future wife doesn't care enough about that, well you just learned a very interesting personality trait of her, without the need to go through years of relationship.

Re: The diamond world takes radical steps to stop a pricing plunge

#390

Post by ako »

serf wrote: post #298
blindhippo wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes, that's quite the binary distinction... Surely there is room between those subjective descriptions of people for "hey, I like this thing even though it's irrational, ok?" Let people live their lives and you do you. People aren't a "provider mannequin" just because they like to make their partner happy.

acknowledgement of irrationality, especially one that isn't accompanied with a wish to better themselves away from that irrationality, would be a major red flag for me personally entering into a long-term relationship. there is also a great distinction between "Yeah I know another helping of chocolate syrup on my ice cream is a bad decision, but it'll make me feel good today.", and "You need to make a 10kUSD+ purchas…

There's so much irrationality in the world, everyone is guilty of them: irrationally believing in gods, irrationally being happy when someone else wins a sports match, irrationally being happy with a very expensive red sportscar, etc, etc, etc.
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