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You Paid $1k for an iPhone, but Apple Still Controls It

nytimes.com

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Re: You Paid $1k for an iPhone, but Apple Still Controls It

#191

Post by badpun »

daft_pink wrote: post #113

The reason I think users don't mind Apple's control of their devices is that the reality is that users don't control devices, programmers do. Also, security requires constant updates and updates cost money, so it's not realistic to use a device for a decade, because you won't have security updates from any company at that point. Apple has better updates over time, which is reflected in it's higher resale values. So o…

> security requires constant updates and updates cost money

Security doesn't require constant updates if the software they shipped didn't have bugs in the first place. These updates are just fixing faults in software that I've already paid for. Similarly, if I buy a car that made have the airbags explode for no reason, the car is recalled and the airbags are replaced for free.

Re: You Paid $1k for an iPhone, but Apple Still Controls It

#192

Post by zimpenfish »

cianmm wrote: post #36
ozyschmozy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often does phone theft actually happen? I keep hearing this argument but in my ~15 years of owning non-apple phones and laptops, I've never had one stolen, or heard of anyone getting theirs stolen. Have I just been very lucky?

I’m in Dublin, Ireland. It is not common, but not uncommon. Kids and teenagers zip around high-footfall areas in the city centre (such as our financial district) on escooters and electric bikes, and literally grab the phones out of your hand as you’re using them. Minimal violence because they know they’d likely lose, but still pretty traumatic and the Gardaí (our police force) are two swamped in everything else to do…

> escooters and electric bikes, and literally grab the phones out of your hand

London has a non-zero problem with this too - someone tried to grab mine earlier this year but they missed (and apologised as they rode off!) (and I had it on a strap anyway.)

Re: You Paid $1k for an iPhone, but Apple Still Controls It

#193

Post by ponorin »

oneplane wrote: post #72

At yet here we are with nobody having a better plan. The issue is still the same as it has been for the past 20 years: making a (PKI-based) security feature means you can never share the secret parts or make it optional, otherwise it is immediately defeated. You can't have selective security where it works sometimes but not all the times. And trading out that security system is not an option. PKI specifically is an a…

Every people talking about theft security and counterfeit prevention is simply getting the point wrong.

If "counterfeit prevention" system is complaining about a genuine part that literally came off of another genuine product, that's not its actual job.

If "anti-theft" system is trying to wrestle with the legitimate owner trying to fix their own product, that's not anti-theft, or rather, the owner is not you. The owner is Apple, and that's precisely what the article says.

The "security" here is protecting Apple's bottom line by ensuring you buy a new product for otherwise fixable damages.

Just because it's somehow more secure doesn't mean it's better for the consumer in any way.

Re: You Paid $1k for an iPhone, but Apple Still Controls It

#196

Post by ubermonkey »

cabirum wrote: post #58
ubermonkey wrote: post #14

Yes. And that's part of what I paid for.

This is a case for post-purchase rationalization. Take an obviously negative trait and spin/distort it in such a way it sounds like an advantage, reinforcing your delusion that you made the right choice. Same for a single, apple-controlled store, the inability to actually install apps without a store, even deciding what browser engine should everyone use.

LOL.

I want my phone to be locked down and curated. This isn't post-purchase rationalization. I have actively chosen the iPhone over and over and over since its introduction, because the alternative is so obviously inferior from a security, privacy, and application selection POV.

Obviously, I am making different choices than you are, but it's a weak argument to dismiss them as "rationalization" in a transparent effort to crown your preferred platform king.

Re: You Paid $1k for an iPhone, but Apple Still Controls It

#197

Post by theshrike79 »

mindslight wrote: post #185
theshrike79 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scale of operation you need to steal and sell cars for parts or sell stolen cars is in a different order of magnitude in difficulty than doing the same for phones. We are at a stage where the only ones stealing Apple devices are the ones too stupid to know they’re next to impossible to resell and the ones that are really good and know exactly what they’re doing.

Discouraging theft by getting rid of individual ownership seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

We have a different view of "individual ownership".

You probably see smartphones like computers, but I think they're more like game consoles.

I don't complain to Microsoft because I can't install Arch or sideload games on my Xbox.

I'm perfectly fine not being able to install random applications on my phone if in exchange it becomes a harder target for malware and unappealing to thieves.

Re: You Paid $1k for an iPhone, but Apple Still Controls It

#198

Post by gamblor956 »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #158
daft_pink wrote: post #113

The reason I think users don't mind Apple's control of their devices is that the reality is that users don't control devices, programmers do. Also, security requires constant updates and updates cost money, so it's not realistic to use a device for a decade, because you won't have security updates from any company at that point. Apple has better updates over time, which is reflected in it's higher resale values. So o…

> > I feel that Apple protects us from bad programmers for the most part Oh poor thing. They protect themselves and software houses from torrent-esque and crack-esque like solutions which can be easily found for everything that runs on Windows, including Office, not to mention the Windows OS itself and everything Android. That's also the reason why Apple dominates the US market whereas Android has the majority of dev…

Americans actually like to pay people for the work they do...it may be bizarre, but it's part of why America has the world's strongest economy.

Huh. How about that. A country of people who don't just think they're entitled to the labor of others.

Re: You Paid $1k for an iPhone, but Apple Still Controls It

#199

Post by natch »

ponorin wrote: post #189
natch wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is not a good comparison, because Google engineering is inferior.

They suck at privacy, and they are indeed relatively new to hardware game, but I'd say they are better at security than you think, on par or even better than Apple. Like Apple SoC, it has a dedicated security chip. The new Pixel 8 even implements Memory Tagging Extension, which iPhone doesn't yet have. And they do all this while allowing you to install third party rom. It's how projects like GrapheneOS can exist.

They have security flaws that are 20 years old that could be solved by an 8 year old.

Re: You Paid $1k for an iPhone, but Apple Still Controls It

#200

Post by cantSpellSober »

Detrytus wrote: post #187
cantSpellSober wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> thieves know that all iPhones are locked like this and thus don’t steal them Do you even believe this? I haven't seen any examples of thieves saying "stick em up! Oh, iPhone? Have a nice day" Easy counterexample: > an entire wall of iPhones (approximately 436) were gone https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/04/07/apple-...

But those were brand new iPhones, not activated, and therefore not locked...

...and Apple presumably have the IMEIs.

Another easy example:

> In the UK in 2016, there were almost half a million mobile phones stolen [...] _most of them iPhones_

https://www.trustonic.com/opinion/smartphone-crime-turning-t...

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