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Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

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Re: Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal UI search is great, and at this point it should be present in all but the simplest applications. I first saw it introduced in Google Docs, and it's precisely for things you suspect exist, but it's not even remotely clear which menu, submenu, or dialog it's in. (Apple OS Settings is another great example of it.) E.g., you want to apply a hanging indent in Docs? Just type "hanging" into the menu search, and i…

Ubuntu Unity DE used to offer this for all GTK apps through the HUD. You could hit alt and type to get to the menu item you need. Gnome turned out to be a poorly thought-out opinionated mess, learning all the wrong lessons from Apple's work.

In Plasma Desktop, you can do the same thing by hitting CTRL+ALT+I, or by setting up your own shortcut to trigger the Command Bar feature.

Re: Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who says I want to contribute? Maybe I'm perfectly happy using Photoshop My point exactly, that's why nobody "just does the work" > Do you think that the GIMP maintainers are going to be happy if I drop a full rewrite on them? I think they'd be impressed that you managed to rewrite the entire codebase that fast.

Exactly this. They just only recently found the time to migrate to GTK3. The last thing they need is people who have no wish to use their program or contribute to yell at clouds and insult their work without moving a finger themselves.

I think there's value is stating the truth, even if it hurts someone's feelings. It's not intended as an insult, but if people feel that way, maybe that's their problem, not mine.

Re: Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

#253
>Interaction hints

>Another interesting thing here is that when you do something like drawing a line, for example, you get these nice visual hints here, just above the status bar:

>Interaction hints

>The idea is coming from Blender obviously, and it would make a lot of sense to use this in applications like GIMP and Inkscape. Here is a good reason why.

The first place I ever saw this feature was on the Lisp Machine. It was called the "mouse-documentation" line.

Operating the Lisp Machine:

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/symbolics/L...

>1.3 The Mouse (pp. 3)

>The mouse is a pointing device that can be moved around on a flat surface. These motions are sensed by the Lisp Machine, which usually responds by moving the cursor around on the screen in a corresponding manner. The shape of the cursor varies, depending on context. See chapter 10, page 40.

>There are three buttons on the mouse, called Left, Middle and Right. They are used to specify operations to be performed. Typically the user points at something with the mouse and specifies an operatin by clicking the mouse buttons. Rapid double clicks are conventionally distinguished from single clicks. Thus, in any specific context, there are up to sex operations that can be performed with the mouse, invoked by Left, Left Double, Middle, Middle Double, Right, and Right Double. Some of these operations are local to particular programs such as the editor, and some are defined more widely across the system.

>Typically operations available by clicking the mouse button are listed at the bottom of the screen. This display changes as you move the mouse around or run different programs.

>Sometimes holding a mouse button down continuously for a period of time may also be defined to perform some operation, for example drawing a curve on the screen. This will be indicated by the word "Hold". For example, "Middle Hold" means to click the middle mouse button down and hold it down, releasing it only when the operation is complete. "Left Double Hold"means to click the left mouse button twice, holding it down the second time until the operation is complete.

>Occasionally a long click is distinguished from a short one, as a Morse Code dash is distinguished from a dot. In cases it doesn't matter exactly how long the button is held down, as long as it is perceptibly longer than the usual rapid sgtrike. Such a click will be described by the word "Long" as in "Right Long".

>The mouse is completely "soft", like the keyboard: The Lisp Machine can be programmed to interpret the mouse in any desired fashion. The protocol that has been chosen, however, is extremely general and should suffice for almost all needs.

[...]

>2.1 The Geography of the Display [...]

>2.1.2 The Who-Line and Run-Lights (pp. 5) [...]

>Above the who-line there is a line of mouse-documentation, which is displayed in inverse video to make it easy to move your eyes to it from someplace else on the screen. This line tells you what the buttons on the mouse would do if you clicked them with the mouse where it currently is. If the line is blank, it means the default mouse buttons are in effect; clicking Left will select the window pointed-to, and clicking Right will get you the system menu (these are explained later).

Re: Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

#255
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome! I'm really looking forward to Simon implementing all the features of Fly-Pie across different platforms including Window, Linux and Mac desktops. Please support his great work on Ko-Fi if you can! https://ko-fi.com/schneegans But until such a day as Fly-Pie-like features and editors are built into every desktop and application and browser user interface toolkit, I do think Blender also requires its own speci…

> Gimp developers, who have been historically NIH-limited and stubborn (especially about changing the name to something less offensive to the general public) first thing that pops is a phrase of some biologist regards why evolution made plants green and not blue (physically, blue can absorb way more energy from the sun)... SPOILER: because makes the plantae organisms way more stable rather than performant (which open…

Sorry, but the number of people who have seen Pulp Fiction, plus the number of people who know derogatory terms for disabled people, is much greater than the number of people who know technical biological terms of art.

If the GIMP developers really want to score an edgy rhetorical point about how society should get over its uptight wokeness and let them use any word they want whenever they want, and that's the hill they choose to die on, then how about they go all in, and try convincing society to re-signify the n-word by using it IN ALL UPPER CASE as the name of a hard-to-use paint program with an overly complex incomprehensible user interface for TempleOS, then come back to me after a few years and let me know how well that went.

Prejudice by Tim Minchin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuhhw

At least the Blender developers finally listened to reason, admitted they made a mistake, and switched the left and right mouse button behavior, which wasn't nearly as offensive to as many people as "GIMP", whose name makes it kind of hard to evangelize around the school or office without coming off like a flaming MAGA asshole.

Donald Trump appears to mock a reporter's disability:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdLfkhxIH5Q

By stubbornly refusing to change the name, the Gimp developers have lost the right to whine and feel sorry for themselves about how unpopular it is and how nobody takes them seriously. Because in the intervening 25 years since 1998, 4chan and GamerGate and MAGA and Q-Anon and January 6 and Elon Musk have kind of spoiled the coolness and originality of that rebellious "edgelord" attitude.

If you have to explain to people, "I'm not really ableist, but I am simply participating in performance art to resignify a derogatory slang term for handicapped people or submissive S&M sex slaves as the name of a paint program!" you have already lost them.

Re: Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

#256
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search is the opposite of discoverability for all the reasons covered in this thread and in the OP.

The OP doesn't make this absurd claim (search is how you discover things, it can't be the opposite)

>>> search is how you discover things

So you mean that I should loop through [a-zA-Z0-9]* to search which name is defined so that I can use that function? What pills do you take, I want them.

Re: Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

#257
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP doesn't make this absurd claim (search is how you discover things, it can't be the opposite)

Forgive me, but you must have only skimmed the OP. It is quite explicit. > [Search] kinda works when you generally know what you need or how a feature you want could be called. But really not when this is your first rodeo.

Will a web page be discoverable if its server blocks all search-related robots?

Now if search were the only means of discovery, that would be bad. Imagine if no two pages linked together: everything had to be found in an index. That's a strawman though. Search complements other modes of discovery.

How about REdiscoverability. You remember some feature in the program and some words related to it, but ... where the heck was it? Search can help.

Re: Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

#258
I don't hate the UI choice made in Dune 3D. But I still think the menu bar approach is the best for complex applications.

I don't like the GTK crowd's approach in regards trying to make everything work within the GNOME design paradigm. It doesn't look good on all platforms, and feels more hamfisted then anything else.

Sad to see some in the comments criticise GIMP so hard, I get it doesn't compete with professional proprietary software. But it's still a very useful image editing tool, that I use a lot.

Re: Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

#259

This is a terrible idea. The menu bar works great, integrates with shortcuts, and gives 100% discoverability. Anyone who wants to get rid of it is a bad developer and a bad person.

It would not shock me to learn that GIMP has been a multi decade study to find out how bad a UX has to be before the FOSS community starts to care.

GIMP has a problem on MS Windows whereby newly opened windows don't activate to the foreground. It's been there for over 20 years.

Six-year-old Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/GIMP/comments/7esx08/even_with_late...

I don't think it's fixed yet.

Re: Is this radical redesign of GIMP possible now?

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with GIMP is that there's too many ways to access controls and some controls only appear in certain menus. You've got the iconographic tool picker which has submenus on right-click for some tools. Then there's the classic menu ribbon at the top which has most things you expect. Then there's the right-click context menu inside the canvas that has a subset of all other menu items. And then you have inscrutab…

You are contradicting yourself. If it is your only choice, it means it is usable. Is it without fault, no. Usable yes.

the way I used to crop photos they moved/broke, so now I have mypaint installed so I can use it for cropping. Then I switch back to gimp. It's used, but not usable, a bit like a used car.
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