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How I got here

pthorpe92.github.io

141–150 of 373 posts

Re: How I got here

#141
post #134
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to execute them, just lock them up until they’re too old to be a threat. I’ve been a victim of violent crime at least a dozen times in my life. I wasn’t the first victim for any of my attackers. Far from it. And I wasn’t the last. Every single one of them escaped. They probably got caught on some other occasion, and maybe they spent some time in prison for that crime. And then they got out and continue…

>I’ve been a victim of violent crime at least a dozen times in my life. I can't think of a way to say this without sounding insensitive, but have you considered moving?

I've moved lots of times. In terms of crime, the SF bay area was by far the worst. The Bronx was second-worst, but I hear it's gotten a lot better since I lived there. Portland has gotten pretty bad over the past few years but at least I can legally carry a gun there.

When you're 5'6" and 120lbs, criminals will target you.

Re: How I got here

#142

> Who else has an opportunity to spend 12+ hours a day learning something for years? With no other obligations or responsibilities? Totally tangential, but this prison article reminded me of a short story by Cory Doctorow about a monastery for programmers. I imagined living in a room about the size of my home office, a bed, a desk, a decent MacBook Pro and a high-speed connection and just hanging out on the Internet…

I managed to read over 800 books when I was locked up. Every famous book by every famous author. I read it.

Can you suggest one or two recommendations? Maybe one that surprised you and one that lived up to the hype?

Re: How I got here

#143

> Who else has an opportunity to spend 12+ hours a day learning something for years? With no other obligations or responsibilities? Totally tangential, but this prison article reminded me of a short story by Cory Doctorow about a monastery for programmers. I imagined living in a room about the size of my home office, a bed, a desk, a decent MacBook Pro and a high-speed connection and just hanging out on the Internet…

I've had a similar idea before.

I once was talking to someone who wanted to financially support independent scientific research. He had started a successful business (you may have heard of it, though I won't name it) and he wanted to put his money to good use.

He wanted to find people he could write a check to, basically. I suggested that if he wanted to advance science as much as possible, it would be far more efficient to run a dormitory for scientists with free room and board, as long as they do scientific research. I'm sure he could find many people who would accept a minimalist lifestyle for the opportunity to do research the system wouldn't otherwise support. (I'd be interested.)

He declined, stating that one major factor was the tax write-off he got from the donation, and I guess giving people a place to live doesn't have that benefit.

Re: How I got here

#144

This is an incredible post, and I encourage everyone to read it. I wish I knew better how to help incarcerated people. Based on the Norway(?) model, I feel like help would reduce return rates, but I don't know how to go about it.

I just got out after 10 years. I work with a lot of people just coming out (just been helping a guy locked up for 40 years, he's doing great).

The biggest issue is that 95% of them will be returned within a few months. Drugs is the main cause. You get out, you have no ID, no job, no family, no friends. You're stuck in a halfway house that is just like being in prison (lots of rules, line up for meal service etc). All the other guys there have a ton of drugs and you swear you won't touch them, but then you do because you're bored and sad. And then you're addicted again. And now you need money to buy more drugs. So you go do something goofy to get money and you get caught and locked up for another 10 piece. Or your parole officer drug tests you and violates your parole and you go do another 3 piece. Or the halfway house owner gets sick of you coming in after 7pm smelling of alcohol so he calls your parole officer and you go do another 3 piece.

Cycle repeats until you die in prison.

Re: How I got here

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He had his chances to be a productive, tax paying member of society and he blew it I love this thought that people in the US with felony convictions can just go out and be: "productive, tax paying member of society". I'll place a wager that if you called and ask them if they even HIRE felons, they'll tell you "No, as a matter of corporate policy." So, what then -- work for $10/hr so that you can barely make rent in…

He was not born a drug wholesaler. He made that choice…twice! Rehabilitation is not the sole or even primary goal of incarceration. Nor should it be. But I do agree. People who’ve done their time shouldn’t have to wear a permanent scarlet letter. I just have little sympathy for repeat offenders of very serious felonies. This guy wasn’t a small time street dealer. He is probably partly responsible for many fentanyl ov…

From a purely moral/ethical perspective, this doesn’t withstand scrutiny.

The foundational ideas underlying the justice system are inherently religious (in the literal sense) in that they depend on a world view that takes at face value the notion of free will, and assumes that all causal factors are under the control of the perpetrator.

The more we learn about the mechanics of the brain, the less we have a reason to believe in what people typically mean when they say someone did something freely and of their own accord.

This is not to say that people who do bad things shouldn’t be locked up for it. Negative consequences are still important. But the other things we attach to incarceration: retribution/revenge/punishment depend on dubious moral/ethical viewpoints that do not withstand scrutiny and are rooted in old religious moral dogma.

There is a category of brain malfunction that puts someone in the category of a “survivor” deserving our sympathy, support, and respect. And not long ago, those same survivors were looked at as social pariahs for the misfortune of being born with a deficient brain.

But when the malfunction (or collective systemic factors) leads someone to break the law, we’re predisposed to fall back to the deeply entrenched Judeo-Christian viewpoint that insists we are all free to make choices, and this freedom means the wrong choice is sin, and therefore a direct moral indictment.

Except the person who steals food out of necessity has no choice in the place of their birth. No control over growing up in economic circumstances that make it more likely they’ll get caught in the broken prison system. We can retroactively judge the person who deals drugs, but if everything else was equal and we had their brain, we’d have done the same thing.

And again, none of this means that serious crimes aren’t serious or that incarceration isn’t necessary, but we need to fundamentally shift the framing of why we do it, and what is or is not acceptable while doing it.

Re: How I got here

#146

You might consider emailing him. It's lonely in jail/prison. Suddenly everyone you thought were your closest friends don't speak a word to you again. If you're lucky, you've got a wife or parents that'll write to you or take your calls.

Wow, I know you've been locked up, brother.

Nobody will take your call the second you step inside a jail. Best man at your wedding? He's not picking up, I promise you. Literally nobody will call you or write to you. You will get nothing except maybe from your mother. If you are married, forget it.

Humans only like to associate with success. Once you seem to be failing literally nobody will want to even speak to you.

Re: How I got here

#147

I recently read a book about experiences in the UK prison system: 'A Bit of a Stretch: The Diaries of a Prisoner' by Chris Atkins (there is an associated podcast, which is also excellent). It is a fascinating, but rather depressing read about his experiences being incarcerated for tax fraud and how broken the UK prison system is. It is no wonder the re-offending rates are so high. I'm guessing much of the US system (…

As a Brit prisoner in the USA I understand the that USA systems are far, far worse than the UK systems.

Re: How I got here

#148
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was deep into rave culture at that age. Lets just say I know the "deal". However, I always knew I would never sell, because, surprise, I knew the penalty was not worth it. So, I actually know what I am talking about here, and still lack sympathy. Risk taken, game lost. Simple.

It's great your ability to judge risk and reward at age 17 was so solid, but for many it is not. Brain development does not stop that early. I think the difference in culpability between a bad decision at age 17 and say, a bad decision at age 23 is huge.

More importantly, the fact the GP believes the risk was not worth it shows that their situation was far better than that of many people. Crime is a risk worth taking in many cases.

Re: How I got here

#149
post #81
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your one example and disagree with the thousands of others designed to profit off of incarcerated individuals instead of rehabilitate them.

Ok. If there are thousands, can you give three examples of companies that are designed to profit off of incarcerated individuals rather than rehabilitate them?

I'm not defending this. It's not an argument, it's a fact. If you're not afraid of the idea, look it up. Part of the problem here is never bucking back against what we've been taught and doing our own exploration.

Re: How I got here

#150
post #138
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the recidivism rates on those crimes like? Our laws often reflect misguided morals, not hard data. Justice is supposed to be blind. That's an ideal to reach for, not reject out of hand.

https://smart.ojp.gov/somapi/chapter-5-adult-sex-offender-re... > Sexual recidivism rates range from 5 percent after three years to 24 percent after 15 years. Also, I wouldn't put murder and rape in the same sentence. There are some situations where murder reasoning might be debatable even if still wrong (self defense against and archenemy that promised to assassinate your family, for example). But rape? There's no r…

> But rape? There's no rationalizing rape other than mental illness.

20 year old having sex with a 17 year old isn’t mental illness.

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