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KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

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Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#101

Post by vlovich123 »

jwells89 wrote: post #93
vlovich123 wrote: post #90

I enabled wayland recently and there’s been a lot of annoyances to the point that I wonder why I bother considering X11 works without these issues. For example: * Chrome needs a bunch of extra flags to launch in Wayland mode * Firefox needs extra flags to launch in Wayland mode * Xwayland is just broken on Nvidia with both sides refusing to compromise (implicit vs explicit synchronization - Nvidia refuses to add impl…

Maybe Firefox needing flags is a per-distro thing? I’ll have to check and make sure but I think Firefox works with Waylad sessions out of the box on my Fedora laptop. That’s using an Intel iGPU instead of an Nvidia GPU though so maybe that’s also a factor.

I think that's right. To make it work on Nvidia you need to go through extra hoops in a bunch of ways (turning on config flags, installing alternative HW decoding libraries etc). Part of this story is definitely Nvidia & Wayland teams being at ends with each other for some reason so anyone on Intel & AMD GPUs probably don't see a lot of this which is kind of surprising because 10 years ago Nvidia was the only one with well behaving drivers on Linux.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#102

Post by Qwertious »

TillE wrote: post #88
dheera wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, Chinese input breaks in Chrome on Wayland and they still haven't fixed this bug after 2+ years. Also, Nvidia drivers don't work with Wayland. So I'm still stuck with Xorg.

Wayland not working with NVIDIA is a massive deal-breaker. I've used Linux desktops on and off for the past 20 years, and it's incredibly frustrating how everything is perpetually in a state of semi-brokenness as they move on to the Next Thing. I still think about the early years of KDE4, which were a horrible regression from the stable and usable KDE3.

>Wayland not working with NVIDIA is a massive deal-breaker.

To state the obvious, though: only if you use Nvidia. And honestly, the Linux community not going out of their way to support an uncooperative hardware vendor is a good thing for everyone who doesn't use that vendor; it reduces scope.

Agreed on the frustration of chronic semi-brokenness though.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#103

Post by MarcusE1W »

imiric wrote: post #39
MarcusE1W wrote: post #3

I use KDE for a year now with Wayland. Works absolutely fine for me. My requirements are probably simple, just a laptop but it works.

I'm surprised whenever I hear Wayland works flawlessly for someone, since I've tried using it on the NixOS unstable channel for a few releases now, and there are a few major bugs that make it unusable for me. A show stopping one is that the bottom panel is stuck in the middle of the screen, with no way to move it down that I could find, and clicks register in completely different parts of the screen. It's difficult t…

Firefox is a Wayland ready app. You need to set the env variable MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 tough.

Regarding the panel I have no idea. Mine is at the left and I have no problems to move it wherever I want. No idea for that.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#104

Post by MarcusE1W »

brabel wrote: post #84
brnt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent spacing: no useless wide margins. Stylish icons that can blend in with various themes, which are clear and easily distinguishable. Font: most distro's actually default to Noto, not KDEs own. But you know what: this you can change, KDE didn't remove any and all options for customisation after all. You can pry Plasma out my cold, dead hands. Gnome, Macos, and Windows: now that's amateur hour.

I use KDE and MacOS on different laptops. Even though I like KDE , I find that compared to MacOS, KDE is the one that comes out a bit amateurish... the attention to detail in the MacOS UI is just amazing. Am I missing something?? How is KDE better (it really feels much more raw to me, but being on Linux I don't really expect much more)?

I guess MacOS is more polished than KDE. Probably more polished than anything. A few billions here and there help. Given that KDE is an open source community project it’s quite good.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#106

Post by tormeh »

vlovich123 wrote: post #90

I enabled wayland recently and there’s been a lot of annoyances to the point that I wonder why I bother considering X11 works without these issues. For example: * Chrome needs a bunch of extra flags to launch in Wayland mode * Firefox needs extra flags to launch in Wayland mode * Xwayland is just broken on Nvidia with both sides refusing to compromise (implicit vs explicit synchronization - Nvidia refuses to add impl…

Using Wayland on NixOS with AMD GPU. I have done exactly nothing to make Wayland work and it has none of this bugs.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#107

Post by GuestHNUser »

brabel wrote: post #84
brnt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent spacing: no useless wide margins. Stylish icons that can blend in with various themes, which are clear and easily distinguishable. Font: most distro's actually default to Noto, not KDEs own. But you know what: this you can change, KDE didn't remove any and all options for customisation after all. You can pry Plasma out my cold, dead hands. Gnome, Macos, and Windows: now that's amateur hour.

I use KDE and MacOS on different laptops. Even though I like KDE , I find that compared to MacOS, KDE is the one that comes out a bit amateurish... the attention to detail in the MacOS UI is just amazing. Am I missing something?? How is KDE better (it really feels much more raw to me, but being on Linux I don't really expect much more)?

I think it comes down to preference. I definitely don't think KDE is amateur, but it certainly lacks the fine polish Apple has the money to pay for.

That said, I find MacOS frustrating at times because basic things can feel like a pain. Switching between several windows of the same application isn't a simple Alt-Tab; the green button enters full screen mode (KDE/Windows F11 Full Screen is equivalent) instead of leaving just the menu bars and application bar on screen; tiling windows isn't as simple as ramming the application against the border you want to expand to. These are simple things I do often in other OS's that have tedious menu workflows in MacOS. I still like a lot of MacOS though.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#108

Post by fragmede »

GuestHNUser wrote: post #107
brabel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use KDE and MacOS on different laptops. Even though I like KDE , I find that compared to MacOS, KDE is the one that comes out a bit amateurish... the attention to detail in the MacOS UI is just amazing. Am I missing something?? How is KDE better (it really feels much more raw to me, but being on Linux I don't really expect much more)?

I think it comes down to preference. I definitely don't think KDE is amateur, but it certainly lacks the fine polish Apple has the money to pay for. That said, I find MacOS frustrating at times because basic things can feel like a pain. Switching between several windows of the same application isn't a simple Alt-Tab; the green button enters full screen mode (KDE/Windows F11 Full Screen is equivalent) instead of leavi…

Contexts.app to fix alt-tab

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#109

Post by sidkshatriya »

vlovich123 wrote: post #90

I enabled wayland recently and there’s been a lot of annoyances to the point that I wonder why I bother considering X11 works without these issues. For example: * Chrome needs a bunch of extra flags to launch in Wayland mode * Firefox needs extra flags to launch in Wayland mode * Xwayland is just broken on Nvidia with both sides refusing to compromise (implicit vs explicit synchronization - Nvidia refuses to add impl…

It's possible some of these things are really distro+hw related, but for the sake of argument:

> * Chrome needs a bunch of extra flags to launch in Wayland mode

I'd rather have to worry about adding a few extra flags than worry about X11. X11 is overcomplicated, over-engineered, barely maintained, is apparently broken from a security angle, ancient...

Till today I have found X11 configuration one of the toughest things in Linux. I'd rather google for some wayland specific flags than worry about X11.

> * Firefox needs extra flags to launch in Wayland mode

See argument above for Chrome.

> * Xwayland is just broken on Nvidia with both sides refusing to compromise (implicit vs explicit synchronization - Nvidia refuses to add implicit and Xwayland refuses to take Nvidia’s patch to do explicit). What this means is that you get tearing, flickering and all sorts of terrible graphical artifacts

Xwayland is a transitional thing anyways too. When X is dead we won't need to worry about Xwayland either.

> * Chrome only just fixed HW acceleration for Nvidia (latest m120 beta)

One more reason got added to use Wayland from now onwards.

> * enabling vulkan causes Chrome to fail to render (although this may just me needing to try reinstalling Nvidia drivers)

Vulkan unlike OpenGL is also quite new. Give it a couple of years for every combination to get ironed out. X11 is hardly the answer here. If you're going to gripe about Wayland, X11 is never the answer.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#110

Post by GuestHNUser »

fragmede wrote: post #108
GuestHNUser wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes down to preference. I definitely don't think KDE is amateur, but it certainly lacks the fine polish Apple has the money to pay for. That said, I find MacOS frustrating at times because basic things can feel like a pain. Switching between several windows of the same application isn't a simple Alt-Tab; the green button enters full screen mode (KDE/Windows F11 Full Screen is equivalent) instead of leavi…

Contexts.app to fix alt-tab

Thanks for this! Shame it isn't built in functionality.
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