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How I got here

pthorpe92.github.io

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Re: How I got here

#81

Post by chroma »

k1ns wrote: post #42
chroma wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true of everything in an economy. It’s also true that Norway’s prisons rely on, and provide revenue to, companies specifically designed to profit from the prison population. Is a prison suddenly better if a government worker builds the bars rather than a contractor?

I agree with your one example and disagree with the thousands of others designed to profit off of incarcerated individuals instead of rehabilitate them.

Ok. If there are thousands, can you give three examples of companies that are designed to profit off of incarcerated individuals rather than rehabilitate them?

Re: How I got here

#82

Post by [deleted] »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #49
chroma wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was convicted of possessing 30 grams of carfentanil while on parole for his previous conviction. A lethal dose of carfentanil is 2mg, so it was at least 15,000 doses. 1. https://www.doj.nh.gov/news/2017/20171011-preston-thorpe-sen...

Did you mean 30 kilograms?

[deleted]

Re: How I got here

#83

Post by modeless »

chroma wrote: post #19
gavinhoward wrote: post #3

This is an incredible post, and I encourage everyone to read it. I wish I knew better how to help incarcerated people. Based on the Norway(?) model, I feel like help would reduce return rates, but I don't know how to go about it.

Recidivism rates are astonishingly high in all countries. Norway has the lowest at 20% within 2 years. The real rate is higher because most crimes aren’t solved. So in the best case, rehabilitation makes someone 300x more likely to commit crime than the average Norwegian.

It's unfair to say it "makes" them that way. They were incarcerated because they already proved willing to commit a crime. It failed to change them back into an average citizen, sure. Understandably a very difficult problem. It's quite possible that it makes them worse instead of better but we'd need different evidence to show that.

Re: How I got here

#84

Post by frob »

arbuge wrote: post #63

>> the success of the Maine model of corrections should highlight the absolutely embarrassing lack of opportunities in the rest of the system Very well said. And I am glad we have a model now, if one was ever needed. I hope other prison systems take note.

As someone actively working in this space, I can tell you they are. Maine is following the so-called Scandinavian Model. It essentially comes down to giving incarcerated people a chance to practice normal daily activities and social interactions. The facilities feel more like highly secure dorms than jails. The way a head of a different DoC said still sticks with me:

We send people away for years, tell them exactly what to do every day and they get to make exacrly one choice every day: do you obey or not? That's the only choice you get to make. Then, after 3, 5, 10 years, we send them out into society and tell them, "Make better choices." But we haven't prepared them for that at all. We have given them almost no chances to make decisions and learn how to make good ones. We just tell them the decision to make and they do it. There's no space for practicing good decisions in traditional prison settings.

Multiple other states are pointing to Maine as proof that the Scandinavian model can work in the US and are incorporating their learnings into their plans and trainings.

Re: How I got here

#85

Post by [deleted] »

halffullbrain wrote: post #65
chroma wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recidivism rates are astonishingly high in all countries. Norway has the lowest at 20% within 2 years. The real rate is higher because most crimes aren’t solved. So in the best case, rehabilitation makes someone 300x more likely to commit crime than the average Norwegian.

By that logic, the worst possible recidivism rate (surely 100%) would make someone 1500x more likely to commit crime than a non-offender. That’s still a pretty good case for having effective rehabilitation (unless you insist on the death sentence for all prisonable offences)

[deleted]

Re: How I got here

#86

Post by wavemode »

I guess I read this blog post very differently from many other commenters. I don't see this as being entitled or avoiding responsibility for his actions. He's just telling his story. He knows he fucked up. But he also knows the system is fucked.

If you can't possibly understand how growing up without positive influences can lead someone to a life of crime, you're probably too privileged to be the target audience of this article. Just move on.

Re: How I got here

#87

Post by gavinray »

next_xibalba wrote: post #76
gavinray wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He had his chances to be a productive, tax paying member of society and he blew it I love this thought that people in the US with felony convictions can just go out and be: "productive, tax paying member of society". I'll place a wager that if you called and ask them if they even HIRE felons, they'll tell you "No, as a matter of corporate policy." So, what then -- work for $10/hr so that you can barely make rent in…

He was not born a drug wholesaler. He made that choice…twice! Rehabilitation is not the sole or even primary goal of incarceration. Nor should it be. But I do agree. People who’ve done their time shouldn’t have to wear a permanent scarlet letter. I just have little sympathy for repeat offenders of very serious felonies. This guy wasn’t a small time street dealer. He is probably partly responsible for many fentanyl ov…

This is a nuanced topic.

I think I probably have more firsthand experience with this subject than most.

All I can do is share my own viewpoints:

1. It's not uncommon for hard-opiate users to willingly ingest or even seek out fentanyl. I have multiple dead friends whom I asked repeatedly not to even stop using heroin/fent, but just to consider smoking it instead of shooting it. Opiate addicts live on the razor's edge between life and death where they're alright with taking the gamble every time they push the plunger. It's sad, and heartbreaking, but it is what it is.

(My father and his wife are dead from an opiate overdose as well, fwiw. Suspected fentanyl.)

2. There's a very solid chance, given his background and history, that the author was also using himself. If you live with a hard-drug addiction, you eventually become a husk of a person and you will hurt even the people who love you the most, so that you can keep using. Again, sad and heartbreaking, but it's the nature of the demon. One of the worst parts of getting sober isn't often the withdrawal, but coping with the regrets and memories of the decisions you made while using.

None of this is to say what was done is okay, or that people ought to have sympathy.

But what I do mean to do, is shed some light on what these sorts of situations are really like.

Re: How I got here

#88

Post by lynx23 »

wavemode wrote: post #86

I guess I read this blog post very differently from many other commenters. I don't see this as being entitled or avoiding responsibility for his actions. He's just telling his story. He knows he fucked up. But he also knows the system is fucked. If you can't possibly understand how growing up without positive influences can lead someone to a life of crime, you're probably too privileged to be the target audience of t…

[flagged]

Re: How I got here

#89

Post by macintux »

next_xibalba wrote: post #76
gavinray wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He had his chances to be a productive, tax paying member of society and he blew it I love this thought that people in the US with felony convictions can just go out and be: "productive, tax paying member of society". I'll place a wager that if you called and ask them if they even HIRE felons, they'll tell you "No, as a matter of corporate policy." So, what then -- work for $10/hr so that you can barely make rent in…

He was not born a drug wholesaler. He made that choice…twice! Rehabilitation is not the sole or even primary goal of incarceration. Nor should it be. But I do agree. People who’ve done their time shouldn’t have to wear a permanent scarlet letter. I just have little sympathy for repeat offenders of very serious felonies. This guy wasn’t a small time street dealer. He is probably partly responsible for many fentanyl ov…

> Rehabilitation is not the sole or even primary goal of incarceration. Nor should it be.

I don't understand this perspective at all. "We shouldn't punish them after they've served their time, but let's make sure they don't leave with any new job prospects either."

Re: How I got here

#90

Post by closewith »

modeless wrote: post #83
chroma wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recidivism rates are astonishingly high in all countries. Norway has the lowest at 20% within 2 years. The real rate is higher because most crimes aren’t solved. So in the best case, rehabilitation makes someone 300x more likely to commit crime than the average Norwegian.

It's unfair to say it "makes" them that way. They were incarcerated because they already proved willing to commit a crime. It failed to change them back into an average citizen, sure. Understandably a very difficult problem. It's quite possible that it makes them worse instead of better but we'd need different evidence to show that.

The average citizen in every country is already willing to commit a crime. The difference between the average criminal and you is a couple of meals.
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