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PHP: A fractal of bad design

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Re: PHP: A fractal of bad design

#321

Post by aGHz »

philjohn wrote: post #186
cageface wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until people stop using PHP I welcome detailed critiques of the language. There are still enough PHP apologists out there that we can use all the ammunition we can get.

Why do you care so much about what other people use to get a job done? Care about what you use.

Because it's bad for the industry as a whole. Clueless managers are looking exclusively for PHP developers because all they know is that there are a ton of them around. Meanwhile, people who've mastered more powerful tools and can produce more work of higher quality are being excluded from contracts for trivial reasons.

Re: PHP: A fractal of bad design

#322

Post by aGHz »

Roccos wrote: post #206

Enough with all these Bullsh!t..., I have already seen too many articles against PHP, If you want developers to switch to other languages, Write an Article on that If you don't like PHP, Just don't fuc_ing use it.. Nobody is forcing you to use it.. Let developers make their own decisions on Which language they want to use. As long as WWW exists developers will use PHP, Get over that.

What exactly is wrong with giving people ample information to base their decisions on?

As long as PHP will have all these warts, people will condemn it, Get over that.

Re: PHP: A fractal of bad design

#323

Post by optymizer »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #212
philjohn wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you care so much about what other people use to get a job done? Care about what you use.

Because it's not good for the web if more newbies are using such a woefully insecure language.

HA! The LANGUAGE insecure? Yet another one who blaims the tool. Good luck with your career.

Re: PHP: A fractal of bad design

#324

Post by Kilimanjaro »

Personal Hypertext Preprocessor

Nothing in the whole world is easier and faster for a 4/page Personal Hypertext Project.

Nothing.

Don't blame me, I use python and go most of the time, I just wanted to point out the answer to why people still use PHP today. It was created with that only purpose, it grew like weed out of control.

Don't you ever compare php to python, ruby, java or haskell. Don't even try to ridicule php, the only one looking bad will be you for being so ignorant to compare a rock with a hammer and wasting a whole post complaining how the rock doesn't even have a handle.

Re: PHP: A fractal of bad design

#326

Post by loganlinn »

rplnt wrote: post #311
cletus wrote: post #264

If this one thing that annoys me on HN it's the pervasive anti-PHP snobbery. A selection from the OP: > Because of the @, the warning about the non-existent file won’t be printed. So your complaint is that when you use @ to suppress an error it... suppresses the error? > The language is full of global and implicit state. "Global" is one of those dogmatic points. Nothing is truly "global" in PHP. The "global" in PHP j…

From the very (very) long article you picked somewhat weird collection to defend. > So your complaint is that when you use @ to suppress an error it... suppresses the error? This was one bullet-point from a 7-item list. Also it didn't say that @ is bad in any way (perhaps its use is), it was there only to demonstrate error configuration which is clear by the bullets after it. > > There is no threading support whatsoe…

> But letting users write code that appears to work (yet it does not) is not a good property of a language.

I still don't see the point that's trying to be made here. Whether it returns -1, FALSE, or you need a try/catch, the programmer still needs to check. To successfully program in any language with an 'index of' function, a check needs to exist regardless...

Re: PHP: A fractal of bad design

#327

Post by kikito »

ForrestN wrote: post #249
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #93

I regularly, (all over this thread), see people swear that PHP is great for beginners. Everything in this article seems to indicate the opposite. You have to trip over PHP's poor design while trying to learn to program. Outside of the wide availability of PHP servers for cheap, what makes PHP so great for beginners? With Ruby, Python, Go, hell, even JSP for the "instant", in-HTML effect, I just don't see PHP as some…

I've been coding PHP for years and am just starting to learn Ruby on Rails. I'm not a programming expert at all, and so most of the objections mentioned would take me a while to parse. From my perspective, Ruby on Rails is really, really difficult so far. You have to learn to use the terminal (which I've seen other people in my position use to totally mess up their computers); to make a simple application you're alre…

Don't start with rails, start with ruby.

Doing otherwise is like trying to learn PHP by looking at the Drupal codebase.

Re: PHP: A fractal of bad design

#328

Post by kikito »

BoldAsAnEagle wrote: post #151

If PHP really is so shitty, can you please in any other language or framework of your choice finish the following project in 10 minutes, Be able to put a . inside any folder where your apache/nginx serves fiels from, then make your file give a much nicer file listing than the default of nginx/apache with possibility to comment on the file (using a __comments/directory and text file for each comment and sequence numbe…

How about doing the same without Apache?

Re: PHP: A fractal of bad design

#329

Post by OzzyB »

kamaal wrote: post #215
Sapient wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is no excuse. If you want to learn how to do something, effort is required. How much time will that person waste in the long run battling all of the problems and traps PHP brings with it? I contend that learning a proper language will be of greater benefit to a person just starting web-development, and putting in just a few extra hours at the beginning to get a solid foundation will in fact save them time in the…

I agree, but lets say your car breaks down somewhere in the middle of the road. Now you have two options. One is to learn the entirety of automobile engineering before touching your car, second is to learn enough fix the problem for the moment. Needless to say any normal person will prefer the second approach. Now some mechanical engineer may make an argument that this small quick fixes are harmful for long term mech…

While I'm sitting on the side of the road waiting for the PHP maintence truck to come and tow my car away -- I'll read a book...

http://djangobook.com/

Re: PHP: A fractal of bad design

#330

Post by TylerE »

loganlinn wrote: post #326
rplnt wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the very (very) long article you picked somewhat weird collection to defend. > So your complaint is that when you use @ to suppress an error it... suppresses the error? This was one bullet-point from a 7-item list. Also it didn't say that @ is bad in any way (perhaps its use is), it was there only to demonstrate error configuration which is clear by the bullets after it. > > There is no threading support whatsoe…

> But letting users write code that appears to work (yet it does not) is not a good property of a language. I still don't see the point that's trying to be made here. Whether it returns -1, FALSE, or you need a try/catch, the programmer still needs to check. To successfully program in any language with an 'index of' function, a check needs to exist regardless...

In PHP, if you forget the check, and have error reporting turned off (which you should), you'd never KNOW you forgot the check, because missing it is only a logic error, whereas an exception blowing up a python script will be caught by the runtime.
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